That was the initial plan, iirc the transfer of permissions never happened so the multisig still controls the locking. If there are any plans to get rid of Honeyswap they should absolutely contemplate the people locked in the farms.
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Are you sure the permission transfer never happened?
And whether it did or not, thatâs still the process for unlocking the farms.
This has been hashed out already.
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Iâm not 100% sure but I remember that being said in a conversation when I was digging information for the wiki update.
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The transfer has to happen and the proper vote needs to be made.
That is what is in the wiki as the process.
There seems to be a misconception that because the rules werenât actually followed yet that itâs ok to change them.
It is not.
In our documentation a method for unlocking Farms is lain out.
This method should be used.
Before I was PM of Tulip swarm Ceres asked and was answered that the actual procedure must be followed. When I became PM I put that ball in motion, to transfer permissions.
Whether it occurred or not I donât know.
I know there were some issues, but I thought they had been resolved.
In any case, us failing to follow procedure in a timely manner does not mean we get to bypass it.
If you want the Farms unlocked the first step is to make sure the permissions have been transferred so that the proper vote can be implemented to do it.
This isnât Binance.
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I donât think the point is that Tulip is a lost cause but with the limited resources 1Hive has it should try to specialize and focus on a contained set of technologies, in this case governance and organizational dapps.
DeFi is a promising sector within crypto but if 1Hive focuses its energy on one domain I think itâll be much more effective and cost efficient.
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I agree with this and @sem proposal to allow swarms to present how their swarm will align with the higher vision.
I donât agree with this. The proposal looks to be passing. We should focus on moving forward with making proposals harder if thatâs the approach not generically defunding or saying no to an idea. Maybe for a longer conversation but my understanding of gardens voting is there is no âNoâ vote and a blanket defunding seems to conflict with this idea of there being no âNoâ vote.
I am not completely opposed to this but I believe 1hive still struggles with the bootstrapping of liquidity. very debatable I know, but most projects donât hesitate to drop millions on treasury management like d2d swapping or even doing something like buying discounted hny in exchange for 1year vested hny. I think each proposal is different and I donât yet know how to best address this but I can easily support a project like a d2d swap of $1M but may critique a $20k proposal offering some service. Reason is because there typically is no sell pressure and large exposure to the reserve diversification programs. meanwhile services can result in 100% sell pressure. I think 1hive struggles with the important treasury management type initiatives and if âincreasing proposal difficultyâ not done correctly this approach could make it even harder. Take the fox-hny swap. they wanted to do as trial a $1M swap but we had to pass 2 proposals requesting 350 each just to pair only 15-20% of what was requested by shapeshift.
I would still like to see an Olympus Pro or Ohm fork (not the ponzi single side staking 10,000% APY but the selling of something like an eth-xdai pair to 1hive in exchange for a 1 year vested hny at a discount.
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DeFi is the main focus orgs and groups would use our tools for, seeing that 90% of the current web3 projects surround that im still strong on my position of the new Tulip roadmap and how it will benefit the whole ecosystem internally and externally.
I really donât understand what youâre trying to say here.
I could go through it point by point but then people would just think Iâm being a harpie.
You said you were shockedâŚ
Shocked what?
Then you listed a bunch of things.
But I donât know what the importance of any of these things is, if or how they demonstrate your premise, what your premise is other than youâre shocked, or how any of it relates to Tulip being important.
You have no statistics.
You throw down some numbers in partnerships, but you donât even begin to explain how they help 1Hive, Honeyswap, or Honey.
What Iâve seen is that weâve lost money hand over fist in the Farms, as DAO and as individuals. That you can say youâre shocked people donât see the value of Tulip after the beating weâve taken in Honey price, dex income, or the sheer MILLIONS AND MILLIONS lost because of the FarmsâŚ
Enti.
Tulip has broken us.
Pouring more money in and creating more âpartnershipsâ isnât the answer.
Youâre proposing to do exactly what Tulip was doing before.
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Merry Christmas, please can we have this discussion on discord.
Thanks,
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Guess Iâm a bit late to the party but I wanted to share some thoughtsâŚthanks for making the time for this post @willjgriff 
Re: Focus on Organizational Apps
From my perspective, the greatest strength of 1Hive is its long-term thinking about governance and how to create systems to properly steward liquid democracy. This is what our DAO is known for; itâs standing in the community is based upon it and our priorities should reflect this, imo. The Gardens/Celeste system offers something unique because it was built ahead of the interest curve.
This is the tweet, so to speak : ) âŚthere have been on/off discussions about hosting a hackathon-type event to kickstart adoption of Celeste; @philogy was the first person I recall talking about it. Is there any way we could parlay with the buidl week at ETH Denver? If not, perhaps we can find a way to collaborate with Gardens partners to get the ball rolling on how to incentivize creative thinking that leads to adoption.
On a related note, if the the larger goal is to put resources into projects that create new use cases for HNY, we donât want to narrow the scope of swarm activities too far. There are many ways to accomplish this goal, and I believe 1Hive TV serves as an example. The project has already started to generate revenue, a portion of which should be used to benefit the DAO directly. There are a number of ways to do this and a dedicated community conversation is warranted in the near future. For example, on the trivia front - we had over 100 ppl in the server for the UMA game on the 17th, 59 of whom joined as live contestants. These numbers have steadily grown with each game and when the time is right (perhaps season 3), we can consider implementing a collab.land setup that requires contestants to hold a certain NFT to play that they can only mint with HNYâŚas the game pots increase so does the quantity of HNY required to mint, or something like that. Point being - as we build an audience, 1Hive TV will be able to spin off new use cases for HNY that scale.
Re: Defunding Tulip
I go around telling everyone that Honeyswap was the first Uni v1 fork deployed off mainnet. Why? Because I think its cool af as a historical milestone in crypto and 1Hive made it happen.
However, it is my understanding that the initial deployment of Honeyswap was more out of necessity than a desire to become a DeFi innovator on xDai. Please correct me if Iâm wrong here, I only raise it to provide context for the larger directional decisions raised in this thread. We now live in a world where there are multiple DEXes on every sidechain/L2; so any competitive advantage that Honeyswap may have enjoyed at one point in time no longer exists.
In my opinion, we should take stock of our new environment [Gnosis Chain]. It seems likely that new efforts will be made to attract liquidity to Cow Swap; assuming CS becomes a leading DEX due to support from Gnosis and its MEV resistance feature, is 1Hive better off continuing to put resources into maintaining/improving Honeyswap? âŚor should we seek partnerships that could accomplish the same liquidity goals while directing common pool funding towards Gardens/Celeste that offer differentiation in the DAO tooling space? I donât feel strongly enough either way to take a clear positionâŚbut that probably means I donât know enough about the tradeoffs. Continued [respectful] debate seems in the interest of 1Hive. 
If there is one thing I know for certain it is that Gnosis Chain will present new opportunities, and 1Hive should position itself as well as possible to take advantage of them.
Re: Increasing Proposal Difficulty
Agree here, but degree matters - could we think about providing several options for the community to choose from?
Re: HNY Vesting
Similar to proposal difficulty - I agree in spirit and would like to participate in debating specific vesting parameters.
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Broadly agree with @gabi and @twells points here - Iâll just add a couple thoughts:
Honeyswap
Honeyswap on xDai gets steady use (it broke $5.5M in weekly volume last week for the first time since June) and at the very least we should be funding its maintenance. I do think Honeyswap is itself an Organizational App since, as shown in the Veneto Garden setup, DAOs need liquidity to function. Very excited to see what comes out of @eenti 's work on this - I think in our heads we can fully disassociate future Honeyswap work with the past Tulip swarm.
Proposal Difficulty
I agree that it seems too easy to pass proposals at 1Hive. Weâre at 2.5% minimum conviction now - Iâd support an increase to 5%.
Thank you for making this happen Will! This is long overdue.
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Want to second this. While I get the need to focus resources, I think Honeyswap adds a lot of value, for a couple reasons:
- Sentimentality/values: Iâm a fairly regular user of Honeyswap. Not a whale, but regularly make trades in the hundreds to thousands of dollars. I typically keep at least a grand or two in the pools. Because itâs the cheapest or best return? No. Because itâs a solid product, and a way to support 1hive, which feels like a high leverage way to support values I hold. It feels good to use. This may be irrational, and I will happily stop using it if itâs in the best interests of the community to stop using (following this thread closely). Iâm also not likely the only person doing this?
- Strategic positionality: lots of capital is flowing into Gnosis chain right now. Demands for basic infrastructure to invest in outstrips supply. When 1Hive was added to that Gnosis infra index (De-xDai) a couple days ago, likely contributing to the bump in HNY price, was the existence of a DEX part of the rationale? Also, as we have seen lately with D2D deals (token listings, liquidity sharing agreements, co-marketing, etc), Honeyswap can be an instrument for collaboration. It allows non-dev community members to âprogramâ value flows from a high level. And it seems some deals of late are indeed adding value (e.g. Fox liquidity sharing).
- Revenue: itâs maybe not a lot, but itâs something. And now that the machine is going, why not let it roll, buyback some HNY. This on-chain activity could also be picked up and amplified in unknown ways.
The three main factors I see are:
- How expensive is maintenance mode here (in HNY, dev bandwidth, and dev morale (devs like coding new things and opportunities to do so are a valuable form of compensation)?
- Does Honeyswap need to upgrade to v3, or will v2 be enough for a while. Kinda turned off by v3 licensing and trading off of composability for capital efficiency, especially if looking to support âlong tailâ assets like smaller DAO tokens. Though I donât know enough to have strong opinions here.
- Does it distract from more important initiatives strategically (e g if Paul canât work on this will he do more valuable work on Gardens or Celeste, or will he be demotivated)?
Just a smol holder and not deep in the community atm, but just wanted to add my 2 HNY from the perspectives Iâm tracking
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I think some people reading this thread are equating maintaining Honeyswap and Farms as necessitating Tulip swarm, but this is not the case at all.
Yes Honeyswap is important and amazing, but a dex run by a decentralized community isnât meant to be competitive in the financial markets. Itâs an experiment.
I donât understand why DAO to DAO partnerships, even bringing in liquidity and creating new Farms, needs to be Tulip swarm.
Havenât Bees been developing partnerships and bringing in liquidity even without Tulip?
I recorded a few Tulip meetings.
I would have to go back through them to well articulate what the issues are with Tulip as a separate swarm.
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The issue is you thinking because is named Tulip is meant to be or do the same thing, canât the same people involved in the D2D stuff and so just take the name of the swarm? If the issue is the name we can just change it. Itâs just a name, yâall have to chill a bit with the judgment based on others work.
Some folks maintaining Honeyswap is absolutely needed, call the swarm however you want.
Honeyswap doesnât need a swarm to maintain it is my point.
Or if there is a swarm to maintain Honeyswap that should be all they do.
My understanding previously was that there was a general consensus to have Gardens maintain Honeyswap and do the related work.
Procuring partnerships should be a separate swarm from maintaining Honeyswap.
I thought BuzzDAO was the partnership team.
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Talking about reviving Tulip, or creating any new dev dependent swarm related to Honeyswap is going to require much better devrel.
There shouldnât be any proposals for development without first procuring the devs. Weâve driven away some seriously good people. This needs attention before anything else, really.
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Long productive asset blockchain projects
Short pie-in-the-sky promise projects with anonymous founders and 50k egg profile picture followers on Twitter.
I think this crypto readjustment has people pivoting out of disappointing top 10 crypto projects and into more quality projects, like xDAI/GNO or HNY.
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Heartening to see HNY back up:)
I wonder if this will shift priorities, as token price being down for a while has introduced scarcity into the conversation, and influenced discussion of priorities.
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Thank you everyone for your responses, it seems there is rough agreement on all suggestions besides defunding Tulip. To be clear Honeyswap on xDai should not be deprecated and maintenance to ensure it operates as it does currently should be prioritised, but new features should not, as thereâs no clear evidence that they will create significantly more demand for Honey which is absolutely necessary at this stage of our development. Also it must be understood that liquidity matching with other organisations has no relationship to Tulip and doesnât require Tulip to orchestrate.
I disagree, Tulip is one of the main areas 1Hive bees are actively seeking funds for and it requires a lot of resources (funds and workers) so it must be discussed.
There is no explicit âNoâ vote, but that is why this post has been made, as we absolutely have to prioritise things that will create a significant return and sustain Honey in the short to medium term, which Tulip does not in its current form.
No it isnât. This is clear from the established organisations deploying Gardens (BrightId, Giveth, Maroon5) and others using our org infrastructure (TEC, Gitcoin). To build, maintain and sell novel DeFi products that would attract the same amount of interest is far too large a lift and wonât generate the return expected, especially considering our competitors on xDai, eg Cowswap.
Correct, this is why we deployed Uniswap to xDai. @lkngtn Took the lead on pursuing wider DeFi projects on xDai which is why he set up Tulip but unfortunately his interest, amongst others in the community including mine and any competent solidity engineers, ultimately diminished. In my case it was because it never managed to have the competitive edge it needed in terms of effective coordination as well as interest from the wider crypto community, necessary for adoption. Note that without competent Solidity engineers, which Tulip currently lacks as pointed out here, very little that would provide significant value can be built.
Of course organisations need liquidity and a place to exchange value, but for most organisations thatâs as far as it goes and Honeyswap in itâs current form provides this.
This shouldnât shift priorities, Honey doubled in value over the period of a few hours, it can halve in value in the same amount of time.
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