Continued progress on the Gardens Swarm

It seems like this is the first I’ve really heard about what Gardens is up to and it also sounds like it’s the core of the purpose of 1Hive.

Thank you for posting so much detail.
I would love an AMA or something.
THIS is the content I’m here for.
(I always end up in marketing though. Wild.)

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I would love to sync with you and the marketing team and do a full gardens download, I am so sorry, we really did not think about the 1hive marketing side at all. I will DM on discord, try to sched a 1 on 1 download and schedule weekly community updates!

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That would be fabulous.
I was making my way your direction, learning about bonding curves and reading up on tokenomics when I was waylaid by Buzz, and now it’s a DAO, and I don’t know what all… funny thing happened on my way to the forum.

:grin:

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That would be great griff, thanks!

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I don’t really fully understand garden swarm so understand where this is coming from.

Before I can support this proposal I would like an AMA as stated above by @boring877

Also, as I don’t fully know the scope I do believe these projects or at least some use source cred, I don’t know. Can we discuss the option of a source cred refund kick back to 1hive similar to how many projects kick back to sourcecred. As I don’t fully know the projects I am not sure if this even makes sense but I am trying to figure out how we can make a 200hny proposal more appetizing to the 1hive community.

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This is too technical for me to understand if 200 HNY is fair for work delivered, if it gets support from @lkngtn or @willjgriff who know more about this stuff i’ll support it after buzz proposal passes.

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Hi,
I’d just like to reiterate that indeed, 200HNY is a big amount and I am also not very much updated with what could happen with Garden. In a way, besides the work that you put, a non-expert user could be happy to see what the outcome would be.

i’m generally positive to anything that can bring more possibilities, but indeed a more synergic communication never hurts! :slight_smile:

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This is indeed a fair criticism we did not expect, and an important reason why we posted the forum post for review before putting out the actual proposal on chain.

I am hoping to work with the Buzz team to do some more down to earth explainers about the Gardens Swarm’s work and the benefits of partnering with the TEC and Commons Stack in this mission. And once we get feed back from that, we will adjust the proposal and bring it on chain.

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This sounds good to me. And if some important updates are happening, I am taking care of a weekly update together with @boring877. Please let us know so that we can add such updates in the weekly recap.

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That would be good to train up some members on the topic. Having some non-garden members be able to explain gardens is an invaluable benefit to both gardens and 1hive.

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This is our big dream, we want everyone to be able to create their own Gardens… but safely and successfully. Getting the #buzz down with it seems like a natural first step!

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In discord, someone was asking about the potential benefits for the HNY ecosystem, I revised it and wanted to repost it here.

  1. We are mostly focused on the Marketplace dimension of the Gardens Template building it up from the technical, legal and cultural dimensions making it plug and play for communities to deploy their their own bonding curves on xDAI which will create arbitrage opportunities with Honeyswap (every tx on Honeyswap buys HNY).

  2. We are aligning our work with the Celeste Swarm to use disputable voting. This would create some buy pressure for HNY because to dispute any votes, users of this template would need HNY.

  3. Did you know that Conviction Voting which holds ~30% of the total supply of HNY has never been audited? It is safe enough probably since it has held so much money for so long… but the newer deployment of Celeste is fresh and we want to get the code reviewed by Adria, a very well respected auditor and White Hat Hacker who will be reviewing the entire codebase including the newer deployment of Conviction Voting which integrates Celeste, the Bonding Curve App, and the Hatch.

  4. Collaborative funding streams for mutual 1hive and TE Commons priorities, like Luna Swarm which got funding from 1hive, and has also applied for funding from the TE Commons.

  5. Potential cross learnings around how to improve Conviction Voting, Celeste and living as an economic community on xDai. The Token Engineering community as a first user of this is template will bring more benefits to 1hive than probably any other community, about how to improve our systems and will likely attract a lot of innovation within the application layer on xDAI.

  6. Improved UX on the Conviction Voting UI which could be used to upgrade the 1hive voting interface.

A lot of these things only give direct benefit to 1hive if we work with the other streams work more closely and communicate better… which is why we are putting this proposal on pause until we have a stronger presence on the Comms channels and a team member that can take on that responsibility.

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Thanks for making the points above, although I think they’re fair, I don’t think they, along with the original post’s points, justify this proposal’s value especially considering my analysis of the development you’ve done and it’s use in the future version of 1Hive Gardens. See further down.

Regarding your points above:

  • Point 1. I’m interested in what degree of customisation you intend to integrate into the Marketplace UI/what you mean by “Plug and Play” and are you referring to further development of this website: hatch.tecommons.org / https://github.com/TECommons/tec-hatch or something else?

  • Point 3. The more people have eyes on our contracts the better. I will gladly guide Adria through what would be good to be looked at. However, I’m curious at what cost this will be, many of our contracts I believe aren’t worth paying to have audited.

  • Point 6. Can you describe what UX changes you believe could benefit the 1Hive Honey Pot website because they’re not obvious to me from looking here: gov.tecommons.org?

Since I don’t consider the TEC Gardens to be directly benefiting 1Hive and Honey, unlike all other outflows from the common pool afaik, what I’m interested in seeing, and the main reason I’m interested in supporting the Gardens Swarm considering the amount that’s being requested, is reusable software.

1Hive has a plan to make a generalisable version of Gardens, @lkngtn should be clarifying what that is ASAP through some updates to the 1Hive Wiki, as soon as he does we can make a plea to align TEC Gardens development with 1Hive Gardens and for the current Gardens Swarm to work on 1Hive Gardens post TEC Gardens. With that in mind I have some questions and comments about the deliverables you have specified from the original post (see Deliverables so far: section in original post).

Hatch: We adapted Aragon Black’s fundraising app (Specifically presale.sol) and upgraded it to use Aragon connect. Here’s the second iteration: hatch.tecommons.org

To clarify, you’ve created a website (https://github.com/TECommons/tec-hatch) that interfaces with the Marketplace contracts that allows users to purchase tokens using the presale process, is that correct? Does it do anything beyond allow people to buy tokens or will it in the future?

Also can you clarify if you’ve modified presale.sol. The only changes I can see to the Marketplace app (where presale.sol lives) are addressing technical debt (very useful, thanks for that), besides this the functionality has not been modified afaik (excluding some minor permission modifications).

I’m not sure if 1Hive Gardens will be bootstrapped with a presale so without further details as to what this website is intended to be I’m not sure if this is something that 1Hive Gardens will use.

ABC: We adapted Aragon Convert to use 1hive Marketplace (which converts tokens without batching). You can exchange TESTTEC Tokens via an Augmented Bonding Curve: convert.tecommons.org

For reference this is a fork of an Aragon website, code is here: https://github.com/TECommons/tec-convert. Is this finished? This may be useful for 1Hive Gardens when converting already existing tokens into 1Hive Gardens Governance tokens through the Marketplace app. Although I’d like to think such functionality would be integrated into a single interface along with the other Gardens functionality.

CV: We adapted 1hive Honeypot v1 to be used with two tokens, and adjusted the governance token price oracle to read from the bonding curve instead of honeyswap. You can vote with Conviction Voting Here: gov.tecommons.org

For reference this is a fork of the 1Hive Honey Pot website, code is here: https://github.com/TECommons/tec-interface. I don’t believe 1Hive Gardens will use 2 tokens so I don’t think this will be useful. Even if it is I think, conviction voting should be integrated along with the converter and maybe even presale functionality above into a single website.

DV: We ran a demo of 1hive Dandelion Voting with the TEC community here: TEC Test Dandelion Voting App

1Hive Gardens will not use Dandelion Voting it will use Disputable Voting. There’s no software or likely other info here that can be reused.

This isn’t a put down in any way of the work of the TEC, I’m sure the software is well written and I do consider what you’re doing valuable, but I also think it’s necessary to highlight to the 1Hive community how the current Gardens Swarm is contributing to 1Hive’s technical goals.

In terms of technical infrastructure there is nothing that is obviously reusable for 1Hive Gardens. In terms of community learning I believe there is benefit. Ultimately I do not consider the current proposal worth awarding $60k for. However, if we could start creating alignment in the Gardens Swarm with 1Hive’s generalisable version of Gardens, which I have no doubt is largely inline with the TEC version of Gardens, where some of the software written could be reused for 1Hive Gardens, and perhaps from which there would be interest in working on 1Hive Gardens in the future, then I could be in favour. If you are interested in creating better alignment between these efforts, then I would propose some meetings post @lkngtn’s write-up to work out the right direction.

As for the proposal value, I’d like to highlight that the first proposal hoped to receive $50k, ultimately it only managed to pay out $10k due to price changes so I would expect you to be requesting $40k. However, you are requesting $60k, can you explain what the increase in price is due to? Also I suggest whatever value is landed on is paid out through multiple instalments so the community can judge progress.

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Update on 1Hive Gardens structure: https://1hive.gitbook.io/1hive/projects/gardens and https://hackmd.io/y8QzQqj4RWmMtHesrzdj4g?view and a suggestion to rename the Gardens Swarm: Rename the Gardens Swarm to the TEC Swarm

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Sorry for the late reply. I’ll try to reply your questions the best way I can.

Point 1. I’m interested in what degree of customisation you intend to integrate into the Marketplace UI/what you mean by “Plug and Play” and are you referring to further development of this website: hatch.tecommons.org / https://github.com/TECommons/tec-hatch or something else?

The work we have been doing regarding the Marketplace UI can be broken down in two:

  • Convert: convert.tecommons.org. This is the bonding curve frontend. We have been working on making more customizable and easy to use by any DAO that uses a bonding curve.
  • Hatch: hatch.tecommons.org. This is the previously called presale frontend. We have used Aragon Connect to adapt the old Aragon Black’s frontend, so it’s much more customizable now.

They both are free software plus to legal and cultural developments that can be used by any new DAO to bootstrap itself (that’s what I think Griff refers as plug and play).

Point 3. The more people have eyes on our contracts the better. I will gladly guide Adria through what would be good to be looked at. However, I’m curious at what cost this will be, many of our contracts I believe aren’t worth paying to have audited.

I’m not aware of the discussions around this topic.

Point 6. Can you describe what UX changes you believe could benefit the 1Hive Honey Pot website because they’re not obvious to me from looking here: gov.tecommons.org ?

The work done in gov.tecommons.org has been mostly adapting the design to use two tokens, changing the skin, and adding the price from the bonding curve instead of honeyswap. The real work on improving conviction voting design and interface has yet to be started, at the time Fiore and me still have to test some ideas.

To clarify, you’ve created a website (https://github.com/TECommons/tec-hatch) that interfaces with the Marketplace contracts that allows users to purchase tokens using the presale process, is that correct? Does it do anything beyond allow people to buy tokens or will it in the future?

We are using the hatch as an independent app (https://github.com/TECommons/hatch-app) so it don’t have to be used along a bonding curve, and the website (https://github.com/TECommons/tec-hatch) is for using it. On the other hand, as stated above, the bonding curve also has it’s own website (https://github.com/TECommons/tec-convert).

Also can you clarify if you’ve modified presale.sol. The only changes I can see to the Marketplace app (where presale.sol lives) are addressing technical debt (very useful, thanks for that), besides this the functionality has not been modified afaik (excluding some minor permission modifications).

The new code is here. Here are the changes:

  1. Presale used to end when the goal was reached. Now we set a minimum goal and a maximum goal. The hatch doesn’t end until we reach the maximum goal or the hatch time period ends. If it ends and we didn’t reach the minimum goal, the money is refunded.
  2. We decoupled it from the marketplace-controller, so it can be initialized alone.

I’m not sure if 1Hive Gardens will be bootstrapped with a presale so without further details as to what this website is intended to be I’m not sure if this is something that 1Hive Gardens will use.

The future Commons Stack DAOs probably will use this pattern, so it’s safe to consider that this Gardens “flavor” will be used by a considerable amount of people in the future.

For reference this is a fork of an Aragon website, code is here: https://github.com/TECommons/tec-convert. Is this finished? This may be useful for 1Hive Gardens when converting already existing tokens into 1Hive Gardens Governance tokens through the Marketplace app. Although I’d like to think such functionality would be integrated into a single interface along with the other Gardens functionality.

It’s finished and working fine. We have some issues that when solved will improve the experience, but the code is ready to use as an independent page or as a react component / embedded iframe within another page.

For reference this is a fork of the 1Hive Honey Pot website, code is here: https://github.com/TECommons/tec-interface. I don’t believe 1Hive Gardens will use 2 tokens so I don’t think this will be useful. Even if it is I think, conviction voting should be integrated along with the converter and maybe even presale functionality above into a single website.

When we talk about two tokens we refer to the governance token (HNY for 1hive, TEC for TECommons, and a new token for any new garden), and the funding token (that could be HNY, XDAI, or any other token). If 1hive Gardens use Honey as funding token, then it probably will use two tokens, meanwhile the current 1hive interface use Honey for everything.

However, if we could start creating alignment in the Gardens Swarm with 1Hive’s generalisable version of Gardens, which I have no doubt is largely inline with the TEC version of Gardens, where some of the software written could be reused for 1Hive Gardens, and perhaps from which there would be interest in working on 1Hive Gardens in the future, then I could be in favour. If you are interested in creating better alignment between these efforts, then I would propose some meetings post @lkngtn’s write-up to work out the right direction.

Sure, we are definitely interested in sharing a common codebase, and that’s why we are changing our original plan on using honeypot frontend v1 and garden template v1 with dispublable honeypot and disputable gardens. The more aligned we can be, the better.

However, you are requesting $60k, can you explain what the increase in price is due to? Also I suggest whatever value is landed on is paid out through multiple instalments so the community can judge progress.

I will let Griff reply to this one, but I would not oppose to do smaller requests and show results more often. I’m still working in documenting and writing a report on the results of the first proposal.

As for the proposal value, I’d like to highlight that the first proposal hoped to receive $50k, ultimately it only managed to pay out $10k due to price changes so I would expect you to be requesting $40k. However, you are requesting $60k, can you explain what the increase in price is due to?

HNY is money, and it’s up 50% since we thought about requesting 200 HNY. When I wrote this post HNY was at ~$200 for a while. I think it pumped the day I posted this (coincidence… I THINK NOT!) but the yes intent was to request 40k. When we revise our request we will ask for 40k at the HNY price.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, reading through and reviewing the work done allow me to gain more context and form my own opinion.

I agree there is a bit of miss-alignment between the work done by Garden Swarm and the future vision 1hive has for Gardens. I consider the main issue was not scoping the work with enough input from the 1hive community.

The work so far as I understood has focused on create a new organization flavor tailored for managing Commons. This new template is a great addition to the 1hive Garden and I think a great way to align once again is consider on the upcoming deliverables a wat to generalize previous work. For example, updating the honey-pot site to include the converter + hatch functionalities.

I would like to add that this Swarm has done great on self organize, form an awesome team and they have been responsive to the community feedback :sunflower::seedling:

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I support you guys (❁´◡`❁)~~

You guys worked so hard to show the community your passion and love :heart:

This is last meeting :)))))

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Quick Update!

@boring877 posted the video of a very monumental Gardens/Commons discussion that cleared up a lot of the issues that have blocked us from progressing with this proposal.

The Result:

In order to improve the marketing and onboarding to communities using Conviction Voting and to better scope the work for this Swarm, we are going to rename “Gardens Swarm” to “Commons Swarm” and focus on what was considered the “Commons Template” Flavor of Gardens which uses the Augmented Bonding Curve for issuance and Hatch for Initialization, will now not be considered a flavor of Gardens but actually just it’s own thing.

So now there will be Commons, and there will be Gardens.

:smiley:

We have updated the wiki:

https://wiki.1hive.org/community/swarms/commons

Also we have given a financial report for our Swarm to this point:

And we have a new Discord channel :smiley:

Revised proposal coming soon :wink:

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Good work, proposals can be a bit tough, keep at it. I look forward to seeing the updated proposal.

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