Create a data set to increase and support the purchase (and use) of HNY

Create a data set for data analysis, to better increase use and support our users

Proposal Information

Proposal description:

**### Proposal Items

  1. Create an extensive data set that includes all the possible attributes (column fields) about HNY buyers for #buzz and the research bees to collate.

  2. Analyze and use collected data to draft and contribute to a #buzz swarm marketing plan and 4 individual 4 social media campaign designs and ideas for 2021 Q2-4 that the buzz team and community can consider and approve. Report results to #buzz swarm.

  3. Determine how data sets differ between the different swarms, by sharing and comparing sets and help and other swarms to collate their data into their own, swarm related data sets.

  4. Add 2 more Columns to the data set (‘Date’ and ‘Discord User Name’) for each reoccurring task that a swarm nominates to include, allowing those swarm bees to identify the date a reoccurring task was last performed and who by. (This would stay private to the swarm as an efficiency checklist tool not an accountability metric!)

  5. Revise and share a final master data set with the 1Hive to consider to utilize, that would allow for filtered viewing access of data, by role relevance, as determined by the swarms you contribute to.

Commitment duration

Until the above are items have been delivered or 1 year of reasonable contribution towards the above proposal items, which ever is sooner. I expect to have this delivered much quicker (2-4 weeks) with active input and consensual consent from the HNY community, but I have provisioned for 3-6 weeks delivery time, to be realistic of delays.

Proposal Rationale
Detailed rationale for why this proposal exists and should matter to HNY holders, the 1Hive community, and/or DAO ecosystem

I have blogged my own private opinions about structured process, data management and privacy in DAOs, and shed a more humorous light on the dilemmas encountered when deciding on marketing approaches. To read more visit here.

The rationale in summary is to move quickly towards a way to increase the usage and purchase of HNY and understand the behaviors and trends associated with that use, so that we can better engage and support the HNYs users.

Our engagement on social media is, regrettably everything in a bull market and we have had enough data and testament from the wider crypto community to agree that pumpa-mentals are more influential than the fundamentals, when creating an increase in the demand for use of HNY. We don’t need to argue about that because we have fundamentals covered and booming in innovative development.

The rationale is that the proposal items will achieve the following desirable outcomes for #buzz marketing swarm and HNY holders:

Desirable outcomes for 1Hive

  • Ability to compile insights about the market (from limited available, non-identifying personal information) to share with swarms that require it
  • Minimize duplication of work by creating appropriate data sets
  • Establish coherent practices for Privacy and data sharing in the hive
  • Minimize manual entry tasks by bees, data redundancy, human error or misinformation
  • Increase work efficiency by tracking tasks and who to refer to if you require clarification to help you with a task or the next action step required

###for HNY
Word is we 3Xd since we started marketing. I’d predict we :rocket: another 3X by May and foster that genuine belief you’ve kept going for so long to bring us here.

###for wider ecosystem
If we can embrace the diversity and richness of the unknown users now engaging with our project, we can understand how to harmonize and serve the wider xDai ecosystem that looks to Honey to take the lead with progress.

Expected duration or delivery date (if applicable):
3-6 weeks

Team Information (For Funding Proposals)

I would work with all current swarms wanting to participate in order to to deliver all the proposed items. The main team members would be keen enthusiasts from the #buzz swarm that I have also pitched this to as a draft prior to submitting. Without putting forward a proposal, it is difficult as a new bee, to name dedicated users but I wouldn’t see the tasks needing more than 2 extra team members. I have edited this section and how the money will be spent, before any votes have been cast to include 0.2HNY of the asked amount towards rewarding one or two other users for helping me understand the big picture and adhoc assistance **

Skills and previous experience in related or similar work:
*I have 95 Masters in Economics and a BA in Business Studies and I have managed the data of 2200 users in Perth, (AUS) running campaigns myself for my social enterprise there. I’m not going to pitch a full CV, but I do submit to you in faith:

  • a link to a pdf containing my pre and post-graduate business degrees certificates
    wills.link/postgrad
  • a link to the organization I have single handed-ly marketed since 2013.
    www.perthyoga.org Our yoga group has been my best community contribution so far and my life’s altruistic work is to continue that sentiment by fostering humanitarian tools for everybody.

Funding Information (For Funding Proposals)

Amount of HNY requested:
1.1HNY

Ethereum address where funds shall be transferred:
0xd3f8eCc8524c83d978a8b927A1776D13d8d5e79a

More detailed description of how funds will be handled and used:
Funds will be held in trust in the wallet provided and not touched until the first two items are complete.

The main costs for the proposal are my labor time researching, gathering, conceptualizing and compiling all the parts into the simplest, most relevant data set. It does require understanding what swarms need data wise for their daily tasks and that takes some time and is subject to a level of mutual cooperation.

Once the first 2 items are complete, I will transfer out 33.33% of the bounty as a progress payment, so I can be happy that the community are content with my work. After that I will transfer out 16.67% each time a task has been completed.

1 or 2 team members would be rewarded from a provision of 0.2HNY after the first transfer. I haven’t asked for a lot for this task to help save the DOA Bounty budget, so I haven’t got much more I can offer from the total bounty tendered for this proposal.

7 Likes

This sounds like a solid plan and it appears that you are the right person to do it. There may be a few things that you can clear up abit as to how a data set would look/help each swarm. Overall i like the proposal and the milestone pay outs for it and would be willing to create a BuzzDAO bounty for you if that is the road you want to take (some conditions apply). Looking forward to see what the community thinks about your plan and if they like it you may not even need BuzzDAO support for it :slight_smile:

4 Likes

Thanks DO$H. The job is mainly establishing the inter-relations between available metrics.

Just as an example, there are user metrics and information about Discord server use where data about bee’s Youtube and Twitch activity is collected. This could be useful to different swarms in different ways. Development swarms may want to monitor specific channels and content relating to builds, where as marketing and sales would be interested in seeing overall trends for advert placement opportunities or to measure how well a campaign has impacted with its target market.

Discord is one place we gather to engage and share, 1Hive and all our Social Media channels are the others. The proposal will need to extensively cover all of the current lead points that our users provide data at (directly or indirectly) and label those variables in one data set, for the first time.

Really appreciate the enthusiasm and support. :+1: :+1: :+1: :rocket: :grin:

There is a lot of information in this post that is not reflected. really easy to miss…

That said, I think there are some really important strategic and cultural questions this raises that should be discussed in depth before any action is taken…

  1. Liability

As it stands now 1hive is not an entity with a legal personality, it’s a decentralized protocol and its a community of individuals interacting with that protocol. From a liability perspective for data collection this means, if you are collecting data as an individual (even if you are running a service for the benefit of the 1hive community) it is your responsibility to follow all applicable regulations with and comply with all applicable laws.

It also brings up the issue that I am currently hosting most of the websites (under the 1Hive LLC entity I created for that purpose), and some of them include google analytics. At the moment I’m inclined to remove this, because I think we should technically have a published privacy policy, and agree that we probably need to have a clear policy with regard to who has access and under what conditions they have access to that data.

I would welcome a report on the topic being prepared and a set of proposed steps to make sure that we are compliant and clearly understand what we are tracking, why we are tracking it, and who has access to it, and until then we should disable any and all tracking that we have control over.

  1. Data Collection Policies

There is a lot of public data that is available, including the Discord Server Insights, 3Box public profiles, GitHub profile data, and all the data that is available on-chain. We don’t really collect or store this data, it is just present in the apps that we are using.

I would be pretty uncomfortable going down a path where we try and link all this data together in order to more effectively influence people’s behavior, even if such a path likely would be effective at increasing the price of Honey. That sort of surveillance capitalism is not really why I’m here, and not something I support. Im here because I think 1Hive as a community can lead to a future which is more free, fair, open and humane. I want the price of Honey to go up so that we can be more effective and realizing that future, but I don’t want to sacrifice our ideals or our reason d’être to optimize for short-term price appreciation.

I think I would be much more comfortable if we were to try and collect insights about our community from surveys and feedback loops, and for those surveys to clearly indicate that the data would be made publicly available.

10 Likes

Hi Luke,

Thanks for your feedback about the proposal.

Firstly, I will say that the devil is in the detail (incl the blog #) and after writing 3 drafts, I can confirm it is very much intentionally done that way (as you clearly suspect).

OK, so lets just cut to it: We use Discord, a centralized space for sharing data. Someone set up the server, Is that not the a glamorized Facebook group? Are we purely DAO or have we some reason for rules and structure? If we are DAO 100% then how come a select few people choose the airdrop criteria?" “If we are a DAO, why is it that my proposal says it will not ever get actioned because I do not have $660x140HNY to back it?”. Now I refer you back to your capitalist comment respectfully and address the sensibility in which it started with. I can imagine and support the answers you may give to all those questions but… do you see the point?

Your message communicated wounds. I also received abusive language twice from a user - again, defending her ‘community’ values on this matter. It’s a shame that user cannot see we work for the same goals. The current DAO model is not perfect, I just want people to admit it and best adapt to sustain our chance at preserving the core. It’s not child games now… this is the moment.

PERFECT SOLUTION: Parse data from the chain (PARSIQ). Collect it on-chain using Privacy Protocols (MANTA). My data set doesn’t care where it goes or how its used! Even better, give it to Celeste and its arbitrating attributes?

Until one of our devs, bravely steps up to build that opportunity, I am merely giving you the data set and letting the Hive decide about the curly stuff which I will elaborate here, as I see there will be more backlash unless I do.

In terms of the proposal, I realised that if I dragged all the cultural and factual legal technicalities out, I would just make people feel uncomfortable and even damage HNYs image, so yes yes… on paper the intentions and ideology is perfect :white_check_mark: but that means squat if is not actually the case and we are restricting a compassionate space to dare talk about it achieving that ideal? We are not perfect and we act in good faith, where’s all this fear coming from… just sort the problem and its good! (Most people won’t ever propose a change like I have, they will just walk and go talk).

CONTEXT: I’m the bad guy for saying the above in the interests of 1Hive, but no-ones the bad guy for letting it happen or for not responsibly speaking up? If you have not been aware of these perspectives til now then OK, but what now you are?

Wait, slow it down…: unethical marketing creates a false image and so the DAOists abuse me verbally because I might be exposing a truth that would damage their false image?!! Come on … Hive. Nah. 17.01.21. on record saying it and do not consent to the DAO acting contrary to the direction of the proposed action items.

People are doing their own thing however they want. It’s natural yes, yet UNNECESSARILY diss-functional, which can waste peoples good will and time. All because we don’t want to make a table because that’s centralized even though Discord or 1Hive or BrightID (etc etc) is? Or is it that we don’t want to “Spy” or should I say, “look at the data we already, wishfully ‘acquire’” so that we can… well actually accelerate momentum.

It’s worth getting this right and being a first mover to solve the dilemma as we have a real economy!

LEGAL INPUT (not professional advice)
My understanding of the principle of the law here is that a DAO is decentralized UNTIL influence, custody and ownership of key assets can be determined, and associated with individuals in part or in sum. (The form of an entity is not enough in itself to protect an entity, but how it is PROVEN to operate).

On face value, our assets are the Intellectual property developed through collaboration and the data we use and share temporarily. A good lawyer could easily argue that a dedicated Discord server had to be established by SOMEONE and same would go for the 1Hive LLC entity you refer to, which I would be super careful of taking office in. I freeking love discord so lets act to make sure we cover our base on this please. :crazy_face::fire::fire::heart::om:

In terms of DOA having a duty to ‘centralize’ certain data sets… you can see why I didn’t want to effectively say that upfront or hold people’s hand through accepting that we may need to do something and that it may be totally against what we want to do. (For privacy and risk reasons). Yes I would get a privacy policy together asap :neutral_face: if i was you as I am an EU citizen (for e.g) so :upside_down_face::shushing_face: I am giving the feedback while it still has chance!

The smart philanthropist will eventually work out that any organization needs to decentralize control and centralize data and communications to be healthy. (We’ve been doing it the other way round for centuries!)

AN ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION:
Consider contracting the data collection and management role out to the 1hive LLC separate entity? (or an actual independent one!) and make sure it is legally or otherwise, not associated with the DAO.

ETHICAL MARKETING AND TRAUMA
DAO marketing doesn’t have customers yeah? It has users. If you take away the healthy boundaries you referred to with your comment about capitalism, and re-read the proposal again… it does highlight that we are less able to support our ‘users’ if we don’t know how they want to ‘use’ our service or why they choose to do so.

I already switched my marketing mentality to one that focuses on ‘support’, open dialogue and trust, while you and many others still seem to see sales and control. I’ve read the material. I know what a DAO and a human is.

Voting/Pols:
Whilst useful and highly engaging they are extremely unsophisticated in a world of granular, technological emotional analysis and deliberate triggering of actions. Marketing did become highly unethical about 5 yrs ago, moving from influencing buy decisions to deliberately triggering them unknowingly.

We could use the same data to understand choices, honor users that want to be engaged (are let down otherwise) and deliver more of what people want. (For the opposite reasons)

Research technique wise, people tend to premeditate responses and so data is deficient of any real insights we do not already know. Many physiological experiments have proven that results are best observed when the subject/user is not aware they are watching.

Personally, it is just my view that we are supposed to be leading edge tech and I expect the marketing, parsing and internal mind of a blockchain entity to be wired extremely fast and efficiently. Whilst I share more of your perspectives than not, and I am not saying you are wrong, but that dialogue you are using WILL deter the investment away that we will need to not disappear. (TELL ME I’M WRONG?)

I can see where it will go otherwise. Denial, avoidance, :chart_with_downwards_trend:. Over 20 yrs and as a die hard socialist myself, I’ve seen it time and time again: Social Enterprises fail unless they make peace with their material side and hunger to CREATE, COMPETE to VALIDATE and COMPLETE ideas. Do not tell me there are no competitors when miners compete!

Unfortunately, someone will have to spoil the party if they want to begin trying to communicate any of this perspective in the chats (I’ve delicately tried). The support pledged has come with noticeable doubt for whether the Hive will not be ready to embrace such a change. I’m OK if it doesn’t. I turned up for my part in the exchange.

Further comments most welcome. Respectfully acknowledging yours Luke. :pray:t2::raised_hands:

Hey, Will, I see your proposal, I see the rationale behind your idea articulating this proposal, and I also see that your intentions on articulating this proposal are not malicious in any manner.

However, I will have to state that I am strongly against this kind of conduct when it comes to data processing. And this is strictly my personal opinion and will try to voice my reasons for why I will not support such activity.

About a month or two ago, I talked to @D0SH about this issue that we should somehow have an understanding of the demographics about our community members. And this was strictly about the people who are active in the community. I was going to use our Welcome thread on this Discourse to create some data sheet to help establish a “target group” of users. However, this would be carried out by using the data, already publicly available on the forum, the data people voluntarily shared while they hop in and introduce themselves to the community. However, maybe due to my lack of skills in creating this data set or as the information there is highly complicated, I saw that it became utterly impossible to classify the information, which led to a dead end on my part, and I abandoned the initiative.

And the reason I am mentioning this previous experience is to highlight the fact that we were going to this to have an understanding about the demographic of the “community”. For at 1Hive, even though you seem to disagree with this and try to change our point of view, we believe, at least I believe that our “marketing” efforts are not oriented towards “investors” but towards onboarding valuable members who will contribute to the community. And we also want those people to share our values, which is clearly indicated in our Community Covenant.

Therefore, even though as I said, I can see your point and where you’re coming from and where you want to reach with this type of activity, I do not think that it aligns with our values. We have never attempted to influence people’s behavior and I do not think we ever intend to do so in the future, either. What we usually do is to merely demonstrate people that they can hop in and join contributing the community and even get rewarded for doing so with the mere presence of Pollen.

This is actually what differentiates us from most other DAOs in the space. We are inclusive. “Honey is money, for everyone” is not a simple slogan. It reflects an idea more comprehensive than just its surface meaning. And the Faucet has a reason to be there, and which will probably be funded again with some improvements and tweaks. And it is a well-thought idea in itself because while it works as a promotional page, it also allows people from all parts of the world to benefit from what this community has been doing.

Another reason why I will be against this proposal is the fact that it has legal implications as Luke also mentioned above. However, other than these legal implications regarding the protection of personal data, I should also mention that even if we make it fit into a legally acceptable or reasonable ground, I do think that the law on the protection of personal data is flawed in itself and fails to keep up with technological developments due mostly to the fact that the law-makers do not have the competence in understanding the state-of-the-art. Accordingly, even if we “anonymize” the data, deep down, we all know that it is only a fancy word to cover up the unethical practice of data processing. I mean having a legal validity doesn’t necessarily make an action an ethical way of conduct.

Lastly, I would suggest that, instead, we can still use a questionnaire kind of sheet and ask people who are willing to share their information we seek from them to fill that to construct a more easily parseable data sheet. Because even though we have analytics from our Discord, Discourse, BrightID or even Google Analytics data, this doesn’t mean that people may want their data to be processed. Like I said, it could still be legally reasonable and would not constitute any violation of law, it is ethically problematic and against our values.

And one last word, I think this should be made clear that we are not looking for investors. Or let me say, “investor” is a misleading word in our context because all the community members are investors in 1Hive. What we want is to have stakeholders sharing common values working for a better future. And we are not necessarily competing with others because competition has always led to conflict in history and will do so if we decide to embrace such an approach.

6 Likes

As a person who doesn’t just generate/take data but also does analysis and presents reports this proposal doesn’t seem clear.

What is the ‘goal’ and what is the ‘scope’. To that end how will the goal be achieved servicing the scope. I don’t understand how 1.1HNY will cover the ‘commitment duration’ of 1 year.

I also do not see how collecting data on people is going to have anything to do with HNY usage and increasing demand.

In the loosest sense I don’t see a coherent structure to this proposal. I would suggest a rewrite with
goals, scope, time frames on deliverables and connection of deliverables to goals.

I also agree with others that offering up a quest like reward for people to share information via a questionaire or poll is more appealing. But again since the actual goals and scope of the proposal are not defined I don’t even know where to begin. One thing that I think is interesting is if this was a proposal just to collect outlays of HNY to accounts (wallets) mostly for work against outlays this might be interesting but I believe there are better ways to achieve this accounting using a self reporting model than a collection model.

2 Likes

I think defending community values are important. I don’t think we should be using abusive language, though I also don’t think you should be offended or wounded by me expressing my view on the topic of data collection for the purposes of targeted advertising.

There are always going to be centralized services, the fact that we use discord doesn’t make it a 1hive centralized. Anyone can create a discord server, the discord server that most people associated with 1hive currently isn’t special other than it has become a focal point for the community and is generally assumed to be trustworthy among reputable community members. There are currently 5 (maybe more, this is just what I’m aware of) discord servers that related to 1Hive and active on a daily basis. Similarly I have an LLC I created for hosting some of the centralized services to minimize my personal liability, but the 1hive/honey protocol doesn’t care who interacts with it, you can be an individual, a company, or even a toaster. There maybe cases where a legal structure is necessary, but it will always exist at the edges, in the same way that there are numerous companies and legal structures that exist and interact with Ethereum (EF, Consensys, Coinbase, Binance, etc). That is par for the course as far as truly decentralized ecosystems go. You will also have important assets like domain names, twitter handles, and other things that are controlled by individual entities. 1Hive can’t manage a twitter account as a DAO, and it would be pretty ridiculous to try and vote on who tweets what, a DAO isn’t a voting machine, its not a company, its a narrow protocol that anyone can interact with that is encoded in smart contracts, and the 1hive community is simple a unassociated group of people who happen to use or care about that protocol.

Rules, Structure, Social Norms, and Community Leadership are not incompatible with the idea of a DAO. People who take actions, build things, and create community spaces have a lot of influence over the things they build for the community. A group of 1hive community members decided to build Agave and are distributing the token to the community, that’s awesome… being a DAO doesn’t mean that everyone who happens to join the discord or create a forum account gets to have participate in every decision other community members are individually making, each individual in the community is autonomous and makes there own decisions. We actively avoid global decision making wherever possible, its really only in cases where we absolutely have to (like upgrading the DAO contracts) that discrete global decisions are taken.

Currently your proposal doesn’t have enough support to pass a threshold to release funds, but you can (and I think you are) attempting to making a case for people to support your proposal. Me saying that its not something I personally support does not preclude others from supporting it, In fact I cannot even vote against it.

1Hive has been designed with the idea of “sufficient decentralization” as a legal concept, taking into consideration legal thought like the SEC “hinman test” which was used to evaluate whether Ethereum had become decentralized enough in practice to influence how it was interpreted from a legal perspective. These are incredibly important issues, and I don’t think it does anyone any good to hide them or not bring awareness to them–its may even help people understand why 1hive is so unique, and why some of the norms and processes are the way they are.

I personally don’t think we need targeted advertising to succeed, I would much rather grow organically, create opportunities for people to find and go down the rabbit hole, in many ways the slower that process happens the more rewarding it is for the people that do discover it.

If we create valuable opportunities to contribute, if we create economic systems which reward people that participate in them and add value to the system, honey will be valuable intrinsically and people will find 1hive and acquire honey because of that fundamental value.

Thanks! For what its worth, even though I disagree with your position for the most part on principle. I do think that it is well thought out, well intentioned, and a welcome contribution to the community to dig deep and explore some of these fundamental questions we will ultimately have to navigate as a community.

Its not up to me what 1hive does or does not do (though it is currently up to me what I decide to host on the 1hive.org domain), or what cultural norms and exceptions evolve into, we have a community covenant that is purposely fairly open to interpretation, and it will be the community over time that sets precedence that reinforce and define the boundary of what that covenant means.

3 Likes