Cred Farming issues

[metaverde]

Cred farming affects all of us and the Pollen Bees have been working overtime to both detect and thwart the new and varied methods of gaming the Sourcecred system.

Reading through the Pollen channels on Discord I see there is a new cred farming game in town, and again the Pollen Bees are working hard to thwart the thwarters.

Turns out people are cred farming at Metagame as well.
In a call over there today @bighappytrees (I hope lol) mentioned that similar issues had occurred at Shenanigan.

We, in kind of the general people who were on the call sense, are thinking that our various DAOs should work together in developing ways to detect and thwart cred farmers.

That’s all I’ve got.
I don’t have any great plans, but I do think we need to have a 1Hive wide conversation about the issue and what we can do going forward and also about collaborating with other DAOs to share intel on bad actors.

Thank you for reading.

[project_uwb]

Hey meta… completely agree… it seems in my short time here, i have had this conversation at least a few time with regards to new and varied ways of gaming the source cred/ pollen system. The issue though is that there is a few users who notice it (including me) and vent out our frustration on discord but then there seems to be no conclusion. I actually heard a few voices in favour of some sort of a negative cred system but that apparently is not technically possible with source cred.
I agree 100% that we as 1Hive should band together to come up with ways to dis-incentivise this behaviour before this gets out of hand and starts impacting our budding ecosystem. I can only imagine the kind of havoc this is going to create when we scale up in user numbers and then try to address as at that point it will be un-stoppable.
Thanks for creating this thread. I really hope it kicks off a very needed conversation and gets some action plan in place to start doing something about this issue that all of us know about but are not able to curb!

[metaverde]

I understand the sentiment behind a negative cred system, but it seems decidedly unfriendly.
Hopefully a non-punitive solution can be found.
Oth, “Shun the unbeliever” has a nice ring to it and Bees can sting.

Edited to add…
I wonder if it’s something to have a community call about?
Maybe if there’s space bring it up in the Cafe.

[project_uwb]

Agree that the negative cred system is unfriendly, could be abused and would need tight control over its implementation which would lead to centralisation which is never good.
Good suggestion though that it should be bought up in the cafe call, i have been unable to get to the call the last few weeks as it is at an ungodly hour for me!! lol… i will try to dial in tomorrow as I also want to bring up the topic of getting feedback from the devs on the process issue and see if I can breach the cred farming issue as well.
Would be great if you could bring it up if I am not able to make the call and you are around. Cheers.

[Elartistazo]

You can get cred in metagame? I thought it was only for 1hive discord, github and forum…

[stillnoob]

I think what she meant is the cross-pollination channels on 1hive discord server. Though yes, i found the pollen wiki didn’t explicitly says about the cross-pollination channels cred minting weight.

[eenti]

I absolutely agree with you here.

These gamers have found a grey area where they can game pollen while being technically good with our community covenant and guidelines; we all know and agree they’re gaming but we sort of can’t prove it.

That being said, one possible solution could be updating our guidelines so they’re more explicit towards this situations and leave room for less grey areas.

[metaverde]

Yes you get Sourcecred in Metagame.
It’s a separate accounting. You get paid in XP and it translates to Seeds.

[metaverde]

No…
I meant people playing Metagame farm cred there too. Several communities use Sourcecred. If I remember correctly Metagame was the first to implement it. Each community computes and tracks cred separately.

[metaverde]

People are so bold as to offer service in response to hearts.

[eenti]

Kept thinking about this, probably updating our covenant to address this isn’t the best.

We could add some pollen-specific guidelines on the Pollen section in the wiki, like the criteria for what’s considered gaming and how would the PollenDAO punish that.

[Elartistazo]

Okay thank you for the information Stillnoob

[chuygarcia92]

@metaverde I think this is a great opportunity to start thinking about better ideas for conflict resolution within the 1hive community. As some of you know, Elinor Ostrom’s 8 principles for managing a Commons talk about how communities can be governed sustainable and without a central form of authority, and its 7th principle is:

7. Provide accessible, low-cost means for dispute resolution.

While 1hive has changed the whole game with Celeste, I think we’re still missing a way to manage conflict at a more human level. This would include approaching newbees with issues like cred gaming.
I would like to start speaking about how Gravity can help with this.

If the community finds this program interesting and helpful, I’d love to volunteer so we can make this a proposal and most likely a course in Morphosis. We could really use some Gravitons (mediators) in 1hive so we can start to see opportunity to improve in conflict, rather that something that decreases motivation and sense of belonging in the community.

UPDATE:
If you’re interested in a deeper dive, here’s a good read. Let’s make this happen bees!

[project_uwb]

@chuygarcia92 this is one of the most concrete steps I have seen taken towards resolving the cred farming issue. I had a skim read of the Gravity covenent and the medium article explaining their purpose and it looks like this will be the perfect solution to resolve low level conflict in 1Hive (not just cred farming). I would be up to get trained if this is offered as a Morphosis course and train to be a mediator. I feel like at least this way I can actually contribute towards taking a step to resolve the low level conflicts. I would also vote for it if this was put up as a proposal.
Hope there is more support from the community here to this initiative. @metaverde I am sure you would support?

[metaverde]

I would, of course.
I think gravity is great.
It’s been helpful to me.

[JuankBell]

Thanks @chuygarcia92 @metaverde for thinking about Gravity as something that could be helpful for this community. Our intention is to facilitate conflict management within DAOs and even between D2D.

For the next graviton training (after July) we want to include members from Giveth, 1hive, Metagame, CS & TEC, so that each community has its trained mediators. Right now we are mapping needs and feelings related to conflict management in DAOs through the Gravity survey so it would be great if you can fill it and distribute it to continue improving our processes.

[twells]

Super interesting man - I’d love to contribute on the proposal Chuy : )

[project_uwb]

Hey Juan I assume you are from Gravity. Super cool and interesting concept to deal with low level human conflict. Could I ask if there are any pre-requisites for being trained as a mediator? How can i join the training and is there some sort of a list to sign up for? Would be great if you could elaborate on the training and how to participate.
Also the survey link provided, is it meant to be filled only once per community (or DAO?).

[metaverde]

The survey is per person.
Also could probably do one per project you’re in.

[project_uwb]

thanks meta. I wasnt sure if i should fill this survey out or leave it to someone that knows the community better. Will fill it out as a 1Hive user and hope it helps with gravity team.