Cred Farming issues

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#13

@metaverde I think this is a great opportunity to start thinking about better ideas for conflict resolution within the 1hive community. As some of you know, Elinor Ostrom’s 8 principles for managing a Commons talk about how communities can be governed sustainable and without a central form of authority, and its 7th principle is:

  1. Provide accessible, low-cost means for dispute resolution.

While 1hive has changed the whole game with Celeste, I think we’re still missing a way to manage conflict at a more human level. This would include approaching newbees with issues like cred gaming.
I would like to start speaking about how Gravity can help with this.

If the community finds this program interesting and helpful, I’d love to volunteer so we can make this a proposal and most likely a course in Morphosis. We could really use some Gravitons (mediators) in 1hive so we can start to see opportunity to improve in conflict, rather that something that decreases motivation and sense of belonging in the community.

UPDATE:
If you’re interested in a deeper dive, here’s a good read. Let’s make this happen bees! :slight_smile: :honeybee:

12 Likes
#14

@chuygarcia92 this is one of the most concrete steps I have seen taken towards resolving the cred farming issue. I had a skim read of the Gravity covenent and the medium article explaining their purpose and it looks like this will be the perfect solution to resolve low level conflict in 1Hive (not just cred farming). I would be up to get trained if this is offered as a Morphosis course and train to be a mediator. I feel like at least this way I can actually contribute towards taking a step to resolve the low level conflicts. I would also vote for it if this was put up as a proposal.
Hope there is more support from the community here to this initiative. @metaverde I am sure you would support?

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#15

I would, of course.
I think gravity is great.
It’s been helpful to me.

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#16

Thanks @chuygarcia92 @metaverde for thinking about Gravity as something that could be helpful for this community. Our intention is to facilitate conflict management within DAOs and even between D2D.

For the next graviton training (after July) we want to include members from Giveth, 1hive, Metagame, CS & TEC, so that each community has its trained mediators. Right now we are mapping needs and feelings related to conflict management in DAOs through the Gravity survey so it would be great if you can fill it and distribute it to continue improving our processes. :raised_hands:

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#17

Super interesting man - I’d love to contribute on the proposal Chuy : )

1 Like
#18

Hey Juan I assume you are from Gravity. Super cool and interesting concept to deal with low level human conflict. Could I ask if there are any pre-requisites for being trained as a mediator? How can i join the training and is there some sort of a list to sign up for? Would be great if you could elaborate on the training and how to participate.
Also the survey link provided, is it meant to be filled only once per community (or DAO?).

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#19

The survey is per person.
Also could probably do one per project you’re in.

#20

thanks meta. I wasnt sure if i should fill this survey out or leave it to someone that knows the community better. Will fill it out as a 1Hive user and hope it helps with gravity team.

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#21

That’s awesome.
I highly recommend the course.
:slight_smile:

1 Like
#22

Thanks @project_uwb Yes! There are no pre-requisites for being trained as a conflict manager agent. During the first training we certified the people with POAPs, collecting them meant to become a Graviton and be responsible of certain exigences to remain with that status. We aim to promote intra, and inter DAO collaboration.

#23

I’m finding it hard to wrap my head around cred farmers being part of the community.

#24

My wife used to be a Loss Prevention Officer for a drug store. They discovered that the single most effective method for preventing loss was stationing a single person in the one restricted entrance to look the person in the eye and say “Hello”.

It seems to me that doing something like this during onboarding might be very helpful, if we can come up with a digital analogue of this inside our community.

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#25

@JuankBell thanks for getting back to me and the links to the presentation. Very cool. Just that I do not see a way of signing up. Do you still run these training courses and where can i sign up and find the next available one? I tried the link on the presentation but it does not work. Also the dates on the training are early this year. Any info on the training schedule and where I can sign up would be great! thanks.

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#26

I seriously doubt it will make a dent.
Saying hello to people on the socials is one of the cred farming tactics.

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#27

As far as I know you’re welcome to join the Gravity working group meetings on Thursdays at TEC’s Discord.

1 Like
#28

It is, they are also called leeches, in tip.cc there are hundred, thousands probably.
Their favorite words:
TY
Hello/hi
Oh thank you
Sir
Good morning/afternoon/evening/night
Nice

But don’t get me wrong, most of us use those too, but the thing is that they ONLY use those. XD

I think cred farmers here are the king of leeches meaning they have perfectioned their technique until it is almost as if they were true valuable members.

We can learn from the “leeches” In tip.cc or in any other airdrop server. It won’t solve our problems but it may set us on the right path.

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#29

Hey, from SourceCred so biased, but may be able to offer some ideas.

Are these new techniques? More of what 1Hive has seen in the past when HNY was mooning? Is recent abuse documented anywhere?

From the comments here, I’m guessing you’re seeing infractions that fall into a grey area? The often blurred line between collaboration and collusion? In such cases, Gravity and Celeste both seem promising.

Using Gravity to provide (hopefully) skillful dispute resolution could go a long way, especially if there’s a genuine disagreement over what constitutes farming. It also has a nice side effect of building trust in the community. If people in conflict can communicate honestly about something difficult, and come out the other end, they’re more likely to be respectful of each other and collaborate well in the future. It also shows other community members that it’s safe to voice concerns.

However, if there’s genuine disagreement over what constitutes farming, there will likely be cases where people just can’t reach an agreement. Celeste could be useful here. From my (admittedly crappy) memory, in the initial wave of cheating, as documented in the epic Pollen user report thread mega, the hive was pretty good at collecting evidence in varied and creative ways. And there was a general sense of who the offenders were. But there was hesitation to ban all but the most eggregious offender (he who shall not be named but has apparently recently re-appeared? :eyes:). Presumably because there weren’t systems in place to make those calls without the perception of bias by project leaders, who do take issues around free speech and censorship very seriously. Celeste could offer a good way to reach the nuanced, intersubjective judgements required here. In more obvious cases (e.g. clear upvote rings on spammy content), Celeste could provide a legitimate avenue for the community to punish offenders (opt of out payments, ban, etc.). In less obvious cases, it could help 1Hive build precedent and “case law” interpreting the covenant’s values. This could be necessary in some form, as defining hard rules in this area can be problematic; they can be gamed around or prohibit valid speech, or instance. This would have a nice side effect of further defining 1Hive’s values generally. It would also provide a regular stream of disputes, providing testing for the system and revenue (DAO drama is an inexhaustible natural resource :sweat_smile:).

Another possible way to address this is tweaking the algorithm. The first idea that comes to mind is just lowering the amount of Cred entry-level roles can mint? Like others in the thread, wary of negative Cred. It generally goes against the positive-sum design philosophy and I can imagine it leading to new types of abuse.

2 Likes
#30

@s_ben, it’s always such a pleasant I don’t know why I’m surprised when someone from SourceCred has input. The cred adjustments are discussed on the #:rosette:pollen channel on our Discord, here.

I wrote a long response but realized that I could have written it much better.
Working on it.

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#31

I’m always lurking (that sounded creepier than it is…:slight_smile: ), but other developments in SourceCred land have kept me from being as active here as I’d like lately. Have been skimming #pollen channel but doing a more thorough catchup now!

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#32

I may not go into my long response.
The gist of it is that Ostrom isn’t always right… you never said she was that would be more side chatter.
Then I realized we handle the cred farming ok, we’re supposed to be helping people not playing police, and our direction should be more toward open dialog with people we think are farming cred.

2 Likes