Pollen(1HIVE/AGVE) weekly payments

[DogeKing]

Okay so to start with something I have in my mind for a long time. I think its time that we need to have and it’s possible we create one separated section for AGVE stuffs on this forum(ideas/proposals/chat… - like we already getting ‘‘updates/roadmap/partnerships and etc’’ .
I’m already getting questions from few people from this community ‘‘why AGVE stuffs are included into pollen weekly payments’’ and its taking away ‘‘some x amount of cred/HNY’’ from people who are directly contributing to 1Hive.
What I also think that previous/ and this new posts we are getting related to AGVE need to be excluded from pollen and posts need to be transferred to AGVE section and paid though AGVE budget. Because some new announcement related to AGVE can give to that person a big amount of HNY with 1 post.
My opinion is that I’m not against pollen just my opinion is that we need to have separated pollen(AGVE) payments with other budget(can be AGVE for example not HNY ?).

Example: Some new member in 1Hive worked hard to get some small amount of HNY and with this posts related to AGVE that person is getting slashed ''from example ‘‘0.1HNY and he is getting 0.05HNY’’.

I think something like that can upset at some point member of this community because of this stuffs I already said above. With this topic I don’t want anyone to think I’m attacking someone - these are my facts and opinions Everyone who are reading this please leave your opinion on this.
Thanks in advance.

Example of AGVE section on 1Hive forum.

[Felix]

AGVE is now a core project of 1hive. I understand the point of view of people saying : AGVE shouldn’t be reward with pollen payment. This is totally is fair.

Here’s another idea, instead of removing AGVE topic from the pollen distribution, we should add a small amount of AGVE to it. The number shouldn’t be huge, since AGVE has a fix supply of tokens.

[Stonky]

yea this makes sense. but on the other hand the success of one project can be beneficial for the other as well. If agave gets more traction hny may benefit. Having said that, i believe the pollen distribution may exclude the agave related channels, but then you create a complicated precedent.
For instance: Alvin’s related conversations should be excluded. Alvin is a cross-pollination with Shenanigan. If you do that, every other Cross-pollination should be excluded.

It may b a good idea, but maybe we could get a statistics of how much weight have the 2 agave and the alvin channel, I don’t see so much action in these channels to imagine that the pollen distribution is too different from what it should be.

Maybe with some further analytics we’d see the exact opposite, and then I would very much agree.

Felix’s suggestion makes sense as well!

[metaverde]

Agave is a separate project with a separate DAO.
I haven’t really thought much about it, but I do agree Agave pollen should be paid from Agave coffers.
There’s too much going on in 1Hive to pay attention to everything, and it’s really not right that the pollen goes to the new shiny separate project.
I haven’t thought deeply about it, but it does kind of suck to see pollen distribution to people dedicated fully to 1Hive declining relative to side projects.

[lkngtn]

I don’t have particularly strong feelings on this one, but I think its important to recognize that Agave is part of 1Hive, it is its own DAO for sure, but there is a lot of overlap in members, but there is also an on-chain relationship between AGVE and HNY, in that a portion of the supply has been allocated to stake on behalf of the 1Hive DAO, and a portion of the supply (was intended, and will hopefully be resolved) was paired with HNY in Honeyswap. These relationships ensure that as AGVE succeeds, it will boost the value of Honey due to those relationships.

I don’t see a big issue with people getting pollen cred for things that may be Agave related that happen in the 1Hive community channels. Though I do think it would be cool if the Agave DAO decided to adopt a similar policy of distributing rewards to the Agave community via sourcecred, and if they are using the 1hive forum as the primary discourse then 1Hive members would also be eligible for their AGVE rewards too.

Anyways, my main point here is just we are all 1hive, together we thrive

[DogeKing]

@Felix

Here’s another idea, instead of removing AGVE topic from the pollen distribution, we should add a small amount of AGVE to it. The number shouldn’t be huge, since AGVE has a fix supply of tokens.

For me this is also good idea. Getting some small amount like 5/10 AGVE and distributing to this topics related to AGVE.

@lkngtn

I don’t see a big issue with people getting pollen cred for things that may be Agave related that happen in the 1Hive community channels. Though I do think it would be cool if the Agave DAO decided to adopt a similar policy of distributing rewards to the Agave community via sourcecred

Well I see because people(members of 1Hive) are getting slashed by this kind of posts related to AGVE(20-30 likes per thread).Imagine you are just joined in this DAO you worked hard/ promoting 1hive/hny in good way that week and then we got agve posts and you get even smaller amount of HNY because of that. Lets then make additional one section for AGVE they can be included into pollen payments but rewarded with smaller multiplier something like that. What can happened in future we are gonna get 10 threads for something and this thread collects above 100 likes(cred) and then something like that can hurt members (they worked hard and getting litterly nothing from pollen). That’s my opinion we need to see other perspective/other side for new members again someone gonna join this DAO and work something and that person gonna get small crumbs.
Lets stop on second and think about what new members gonna say if they want to join this dao and contribute / the same members(people) are paid the most through pollen payments.

[project_uwb]

As a relatively new member of this community, I see the point of both sides of this coin!
@DogeKing I agree for someone new that has just joined the 1Hive and contributed to the best of their ability and not get rewarded would may be turn them off from participating and contributing.
But on the other hand, I think like Luke said, i did not really think of AGAVE as seperate to 1Hive, in my mind 1Hive is a collective rather than a single entity.

In saying that I agree with @Felix, I think if cred/ pollen has been established with the purpose of rewarding members of the DAO that contribute in meaningful ways and the DAO is a collective that keeps adding new projects to itself then to make it fair there should probably be an increase in contributions to the cred/pollen payments proportional to the expected increase in dilution of cred/pollen distribution. Again this could be really subjective without analytics which may add to the overhead of the DAO!

May be from now on, whenever a cross-pollination project is established like AGAVE there should be a vote to proportionally increase cred/pollen payments to ensure contributors are not diluted. This way the system has a gain loop which is fed every time a new project spawns itself within the 1Hive.

[DogeKing]

@project_uwb

As a relatively new member of this community, I see the point of both sides of this coin!
@DogeKing I agree for someone new that has just joined the 1Hive and contributed to the best of their ability and not get rewarded would may be turn them off from participating and contributing.

Im trying to say exactly that.

@project_uwb

i did not really think of AGAVE as seperate to 1Hive,

I didn’t mention that anywhere in this topic just trying to say that this post related to AGVE will kill desire to members to contribute to 1Hive. Im not against paying them through pollen just make section below proposals or honey - like AGVE general or something like that Idk and then set up to have smaller multiplier for that section or like felix said deposit some small amount of AGVE for thats posts. Everyone is gonna like that kind of posts(updates/roadmaps/partnerships and etc…) from people which are already at some point in way becoming HNY whales in this DAO/ or they are already whales and they are getting this extra HNY from AGVE threads(posts) and imagine we have a certain amount of that HNY that could be redirected to some new members for there work.

[Monstrosity]

TLDR: My vote is to have 1hive pollen ($hny) fund the smaller community and maintenance activities. While AGVE can fund the large projects needed for version upgrades to the protocol.

Unlike Luke I have a pretty strong opinion about this. Primarily because you have to consider the two tokens ($HNY & $AGVE) complement one another and are very different:

• $HNY - an infinite supply with the goal to be ‘honey is money’. This model is almost designed to distribute to as many people as possible, as far as possible, and have as wide of a distribution as possible growing a robust community and for the economic exposure for honey & 1hive.
• $AGVE - is fixed capped token supply. It is a lending and borrowing governance token designed to attract TVL to bootstrap the protocol, protect against shortfalls, to maintain and upgrade the protocol.

Honestly speaking, pollen does a great job building a community but from an ROI perspective a fairly poor job of incentivizing work that maintains and improves the platform. That is why budgets for swarms were established imo.

Agave could be viewed funding it’s own swarms but relying on 1hive honey pollen distribution to grow the robust community.

If the concern is agave post are minting a very large amount of cred we can make adjustments as needed such as adding a category to the discourse as @DogeKing suggested and giving it a 0.5x multiplier.

[Stonky]

It could be good to gather some analytics on how much cred were minted in these channels (the 2 agave and alvin). Personally if the success of one project can benefit and help the success of the other, I see no point in cutting-off minting cred on that specific channel. Furthermore, if Agave onboards new members, they’ll automatically know about 1hive and can join the 1hive Discord and contribute there too. It’s somehow a road that, in my opinion, would create a precedent for every future project/collaboration/cross-pollination.

On the other hand, I must say that I personally don’t chose a channel because I may get more or less cred, and I hope people don’t contribute for the ultimate goal of minting cred. Indeed, giving less to these channel would be a possible solution, but if in the eventual analytics we’d see that the minted cred are a 3-5% it’s really not a lot.
Finally, a channel like Alvin, won’t have much activity in the long run in my opinion, and the agave swarm has no messages since April 4th (3 weeks ago) so the problem may not be so big once Agave’s platform is up and running and all (most) communication will be through the Agave Discord.

[Monstrosity]

@Stonky

Personally if the success of one project can benefit and help the success of the other, I see no point in cutting-off minting cred on that specific channel. Furthermore, if Agave onboards new members, they’ll automatically know about 1hive and can join the 1hive Discord and contribute there too.

This was a goal of Agave. 1hive would benefit from he success of Agave and the pollen like community support from 1hive is the minimal support needed to keep the partnership thriving imo.

[ComandoBurrito]

maybe that means AGAVE needs its own Discourse forum

[Stonky]

well it’s all 1hive-related. But yeah indeed you are right, if pollen is supposed to go out from these channels, pollen should go out from any forum post related to agave.

[CurlyBracketEffect]

I think that it is important to think of the long-term implications of supporting Agave chatter through pollen.

From my perspective, it seems like 1Hive is incubating Agave. It does have its own DAO and as @Monstrosity mentioned has its own goals and use cases and as such is very much its own project. I don’t think we should rush to remove it from pollen, but rather I think that we could decide what criteria need to be filled for Agave to be considered to have grown to a point that it can sustain itself. Right now there is a significant cross over between the people working on Agave and those working on 1Hive, but I imagine that as time goes on there will be people that only want to work on one or the other, at which point it may become unfair to one community or the other to be incentivized by the same pollen system.

I think about how There will be other projects that start inside 1Hive and grow up to be fully autonomous projects of their own. I don’t think Agave has gotten to that point…I mean the platform hasn’t even launched yet. But I think this is something that definitely should be discussed and some parameters put in place to “kick the birds out of the nest once they are ready to fly” so to speak.

That being said, I think having $Agave rewarded to those that participate in Agave discussions would certainly help distribute the token more widely and help when it comes to voting on proposals.

[project_uwb]

@CurlyBracketEffect

That being said, I think having $Agave rewarded to those that participate in Agave discussions would certainly help distribute the token more widely and help when it comes to voting on proposals.

I second this… I think if AGAVE wants to have a wider distro, then like the cred/pollen that distributes HNY over to newer participants that probably were not around at the start but would like to be involved. I guess like a lot of similar opinions above, there could be another category in discourse for projects that spawn from 1Hive with a sub-category for each which could be fed with their own tokens.

[metaverde]

Oh is Alvin minting cred?

[metaverde]

Honestly speaking, pollen does a great job building a community but from an ROI perspective a fairly poor job of incentivizing work that maintains and improves the platform. That is why budgets for swarms were established imo.<

Pollen builds the community that does the work.
Building the community is the work.

[Monstrosity]

@metaverde

Pollen builds the community that does the work.
Building the community is the work.

Yes community and a different type of work. I won’t debate that $20k per week budget isn’t beneficial to a community but that’s 5 reasonably paid full time devs plus someone coordinating their work. Again, it is great for community which fits 1hive but it also took over a month to fix honeyswap.info and limit orders were ‘talked’ about getting done in October of 2020. I am sure we probably paid out a few grand over the course of months talking about limit orders, which again is great for community engagement and discussion. I am just not sure it is an ideal form of payment for every project model.

[Sina]

I think it is an interesting idea that in addition to paying hny, agve is also paid less, it somehow affects the value of agve.

[Rohekbenitez]

your appreciation is objective, I wish the best energies for agve’s advances