Improve mobile wallet support for 1Hive applications

[tze_42]

@Eth_Man

Yeah I saw that. One thing I have been interested in is whether we can also get a validator that will validate sub 1gwei (say to .1 or .01). For a while we were clearing tx’s at .00000001 gwei. The idea we can go even lower in costs is something I am very interested in. Creating a robust fee market even if small also is interesting to me.

Another robust RPC I think is already under discussion in terms of funding. I think I saw numbers around $250/month just for renting the servers. Others know more.

Right now you still need 20000 STAKE to become a validator, but that is probably changing to a lower amount. We basically kept our validator running for 1.5 years, before transaction fees provided anything to the cost. If you lower the cost for transactions we run into possible spamming problems and then all applications would suffer. Imho, 1 GWei is really low … actually already too low for proper spam protection.
The cost for the RPC depend on the load balancing set up and the cloud provider you use. I guess, the $250/month are AWS with load balancing. With a good admin and a less elite (=expensive) cloud provider you can probably bring it down to $50/month.

@Eth_Man

Most of our issues are related to RPCs not being robust so we are back to (2/1) on this.

Therefore we will rather add our RPC as a fallback option.

@Eth_Man

Can you explain ‘secure enclave’? I have been pushing for a multisig scheme to wallets for some time now. Due to the parity multisig wallet bug I am suspicious of multisig contracts generally and want a way for the user to generate these in a open way. If you have a link to ARTIS and Gnosis Safe info that would be helpful.

Android phones and iPhones have a hardware chip just as your Ledger to safely store data on your phone which can’t be extracted, e.g. your biometric data. Trezor doesn’t have that kind of hardware security. Which doesn’t necessary make it a bad device.
At the end the security comes down to a lot of factors and using secure hardware is just one of them … Ledger just got bad press with the latest hack.
https://youtu.be/XS5QX7Oiv1w and https://twitter.com/MinervaWallet/status/1312675945246003201?s=20 should give you some insight.

@Eth_Man

Not familiar with Fairdrop. I have significant concerns over anything living on a server and would want a privacy checkbox option so I can manage that data myself via a USB drive or something.

Yea, that is the third option, but it basically kills any multi-device support and opens another can of worms

@Eth_Man

With respect to linux I was thinking desktop. I thought Andriod was ‘linux like’ but no clue as I have not taken the hard dive there.

Well iOS and Android are Linux like, but that doesn’t help. Even if you port from Android to iOS it is basically a totally separate project … one written in Kotlin and the other in Swift with different UI designs in line with the expectations from Google and Apple

@Eth_Man

Well I just see this whole swapping in wallet as a great idea. I have never used it so don’t know about fees to wallet provider. But I am sure with right prodding and some back end development we maybe could make 1Hive Honeyswap the first exchange to back end fees to wallets that integrate us into swaps. An area for discussion to be sure. I think it would be massively convenient for users.

I guess there will be already very high convenience with a direct browser < > wallet connection when someone is on mobile only and via WalletConnect, once you enable it on the website (there is another discussion about providing the ChainID to the wallet going on).

@Eth_Man

Yeah my Ledger is not the bluetooth enabled but people will ask. Sounds like the hardest part here is going to be hardware signature support. This will and is the biggest hurdle for me as I don’t want access to my wallets via non hardware based signing and other serious crypto owners are the same. This limits people/wallets to small amounts and we want the big whales to be able to come to xDAI. Right now I get this with Metamask on desktop so I am ok. I just wish I could do transactions in MetaMask.

I’m pretty sure that we can come up with something, once the wales come in and demand that level of additional security. Also I think we will get some more things going on on the Gnosis Safe side and this will be definitely on our radar and we might go to Berlin for a brainstorming session with the guys, once we are allowed to travel again.
Regarding iOS, we are closely cooperating with AlphaWallet and they have already xDai Chain support and we currently try to get their WalletConnect logic working as well. Check it out. I think it is important that there are several options for wallets and it will be hard for one wallet to meet all needs of all users … but we try to give our best with Minerva.

@Eth_Man

I think the 30-40K US/month is going to be a tough sell. There may be a way we can do partial contribution to funding your project in exchange for some of our people to help with support (at least on xDAI and with Honeyswap/1Hive). Certainly areas to explore and thank you again for coming to 1Hive with this.

Would be rather in the area of 25k US/month, but yes its not peanuts. On the other side wallets like Argent have collected 15m US VC money … so there is obviously a lot money to make once you reached sufficient scale.
I have not even though of a full scale funding, but should it ever be possible, it would make life a lot easier

@Eth_Man

You have answered most of my questions. One thing I have been wondering about all of these wallets is how my wife who is visually disabled could use them? The idea of a address compare and reading via a headset of the first and last characters of an address etc. But this is another vastly different topic (crypto support for people with visual disabilities that keeps their assets secure).

Thats tough … I mean it is an interesting challenge. I would rather go with voice commands and the contact list with names and ENS support, to avoid addresses as much as possible.
Let’s say something like this: “Minerva, send 10 ETH coins to Markus to his ENS account markus.eth from my account #2 on Ethereum.”, followed by the phone repeating the transaction and asking for verbal and biometric confirmation.

[Eth_Man]

I wanted to provide a quick reply as my daughter has been begging for my attention today (I want to oblige)

Sounds like your team has experience, and your knowledge is pretty extensive. If there was some way we could leverage your team and wallet work across the space of all budding L2’s this might be a nice way to get your company to scale in terms of revenue.

@tze_42

Thats tough … I mean it is an interesting challenge. I would rather go with voice commands and the contact list with names and ENS support, to avoid addresses as much as possible.
Let’s say something like this: “Minerva, send 10 ETH coins to Markus to his ENS account markus.eth from my account #2 on Ethereum.”, followed by the phone repeating the transaction and asking for verbal and biometric confirmation.

You know today I just got my own ENS MakerMan.eth hehe. Yes I have been many places.

Maker MCD Ethereum System Liquidation report and Black Thursday Compensation...

I am MakerMan on Maker, Eth_Man on sourceCred and reddit /r/ethtrader and here. Working on a whitepaper with a new model approach to work-rewards generally - going slow because I am screwing around with other more fun things.

[Stonky]

Hey there,
I believe that this is very well thought and reasonable. To my limited knowledge, I only used MetaMask as of now, so I do not have a term of comparison with other wallets but, nonetheless, something that works well and smoothly with the xdai chain is much needed in my opinion

[D0SH]

The mostly adopted wallet is MM. If we can help out ARTIS with Minverva we could have some closer relations with people supporting the wallet. Metamask has ignored most of our requests or given us some vague answers when we have fully supported and have burned through a ton of resources and funds for them. With that being said if we can get a good synergy between ARTIS we can create requests that aren’t ignored, and as written above they are introducing alot of features that would really benefit the ease of use, especially when all these new networks are going to be introduced.

[tze_42]

Thanks again for the kind words.

We had today a team meeting and we discussed three options for supporting each others projects. As mentioned in my intro we are not just working on Minerva, but also the ARTIS blockchain network. The current development towards the ARTIS 2.0 version (next public testnet next week) will introduce the Honey Badger BFT consensus in combination with POSDAO validator selection, already used for xDai Chain. HBBFT will solve front running and MEV, while providing 1 sec. finality and censorship resistance. Therefore, it is also part of the xDai Chain roadmap, but for ARTIS 2.0 we strive for Q2/2021.
We intend to list the xATS token (not xART) on Honeyswap with STAKE as its main trading pair. Right now we sell ATS via OTC and directly on Ethereum mainnet via a smart contract. This will stay in place and the price on Ethereum will be coupled to the Honeyswap exchange rate.

Option 1: Support the development of the Minerva wallet with HNY in line with the proposal. We could define a weekly sum of e.g. 15 HNY / max. 3000€ and a max. duration of 6 weeks (regularly reviewed) in addition to supporting each other to get WalletConnect working for 1Hive applications - most importantly Honeyswap.
Option 2: Conduct a token swap between 1Hive (HNY) and lab10 collective (ATS) and lock a larger portion of both tokens in order to avoid immediate selling on Honeyswap and the creation of sell pressure. 1Hive could likely run a node on the ARTIS network and generate additional income for the community pool, as well as provide a ATS staking opportunity for members.
Option 3: any mix of Option 1 and 2.

We look forward to your opinions and would like to proceed, as quick as possible, in order to have everything in place ASAP enabling 1Hive and lab10 to thrive.

[willjgriff]

@tze_42

Metamask causes various problems for users, resulting in frustration and money loss.

Can you outline the issues that cause the above outcomes on mobile, and how you have solved them?

I use MetaMask on my mobile. I have access to all the funds I have access to on my computer and I can use all the 1Hive sites. The only hurdle I had to jump was adding xDai to my mobile MetaMask installation.

Are there any benefits besides having xDai natively in the wallet and the ability to use WalletConnect on xDai this wallet will have over MetaMask? And if I use my MetaMask seed phrase will I see the same funds shown in my desktop MetaMask?

The 1Hive websites aren’t currently very mobile friendly so I’m not convinced that supporting the development of a mobile wallet is in 1Hive’s interests.

[tze_42]

I’m referring to the outspoken issues with Metamask in this forum Troubleshooting problems on Metamask and also to the chat conversations in Discord and even here in this thread: Improve mobile wallet support for 1Hive applications

MM has no native support for xDai Chain and many other problems, e.g. not being able to calculate gas fees for sidechains, despite many attempts to get that solved. We have the same problem with the ARTIS blockchain and get the feeling that the codebase is likely messy or they don’t have good tests in place. Not a good thing for a wallet imho.

@willjgriff

Are there any benefits besides having xDai natively in the wallet and the ability to use WalletConnect on xDai this wallet will have over MetaMask?

• Easy on-boarding | setup in 2-3 min. and risk free learning on test chains included
• Direct fiat on-ramp to xDai
• Bridge integration, e.g. people you deal with as not tech savvy and failed to claim their xDai: “unclaimedDiff”:128,“unclaimedBalance”:“15709.710237089989809642”

I could go on with more features to come but it is probably better to refer to our roadmap.

@willjgriff

And if I use my MetaMask seed phrase will I see the same funds shown in my desktop MetaMask?

Yes. Key derivation for main networks is equal to MM.

@willjgriff

The 1Hive websites aren’t currently very mobile friendly so I’m not convinced that supporting the development of a mobile wallet is in 1Hive’s interests.

I have seen that Uniswap does a better job there. It is a bit surprising to me that you think that not mobile friendly isn’t something that shouldn’t be worked on hard right now, to engage with the many people not even having a computer.
The market growth of registered mobile money accounts is showing that tremendous change. People form Europe or North America would not know, but the rest of the world, which is partially just hooked up to the internet, starts with a phone.

I assume that is not a general 1Hive strategy to avoid engaging with the developing world, but if it is, I would like to know that as well. This would not just affect this proposal, it would affect our strategy and development.

[willjgriff]

Thanks for the response.

@tze_42

It is a bit surprising to me that you think that not mobile friendly isn’t something that shouldn’t be worked on hard right now

What I’m saying is that I think capital would be better allocated to website development before mobile wallet development.

Also do you have any plans/how easy it would be to support other networks, eg Matic or an Arbitrum rollup? There’s a reasonable chance we will migrate to one of these if xDAI doesn’t keep up.

[tze_42]

If I am too direct, let me know

@willjgriff

What I’m saying is that I think capital would be better allocated to website development before mobile wallet development.

I think both are equally important and as far as I see, you are working on it anyway. For an improved mobile experience, it would be sufficient to look at the Honeyswap and (if revived) the Honeycomb website. A successful Honeyswap will also fund a lot of new possibilities anyway.

@willjgriff

Also do you have any plans/how easy it would be to support other networks, eg Matic or an Arbitrum rollup? There’s a reasonable chance we will migrate to one of these if xDAI doesn’t keep up.

Actually after your comments I was immediately looking for Matic and what they have there. Seems to be the same poor situation regarding mobile wallet support. I am also in talks with Connext for cross-chain liquidity pools using state channels, but they still need some time in order to ramp up their Vector network. Once the dust settles for L2 rollups we will look at that too.
We are believers in an Ethereum multi-blockchain and L2 rollup world and therefore will support all thriving ecosystems.
I hope that answers your questions.

[metaverde]

Metamask doesn’t populate my mobile wallet with amounts. I synced and all of the coins showed up in the lists but on xdai chain only xdai showed in amounts.
Also the xdai showing with eth values causes confusion for new users.
I have had periods of smooth Metamask use on my phone, but in general there really are issues.
I’ve never successfully carried out trades on Honeyswap on my mobile, but tbh I haven’t tried that hard. Worst case scenario I hotspot to my computer and work.

*** I have several addresses at the same seed.
°°°I am not dedicated to xdai either. Matic is sounding good atm.

[PeterTheOne]

Hi, I’m also with lab10

@willjgriff

The 1Hive websites aren’t currently very mobile friendly so I’m not convinced that supporting the development of a mobile wallet is in 1Hive’s interests.

Take a look at WalletConnect, it supports two use-cases: 1. Dapp on mobile and wallet on mobile (connect with deeplink), 2. Dapp on desktop and wallet on mobile (connect with QR code). For the second use-case the Dapp websites don’t need to be optimized for mobile.

So the wallet is not a Dapp browser but just there to handle the keys and to confirm transactions etc.

[tze_42]

We would like to thank everyone for the in-detail discussion and your suggestions about this proposal.

As discussed in the chat, the support for this proposal will be sustained even if you decide to move to a L2 network like Arbitrum. The integration is basically an update of one configuration file and users will be assisted inside the Minerva wallet to migrate in an easy way.

Even if not mentioned in the proposal, but definitely planned, is that our marketing efforts will highlight the 1Hive / Honeyswap community, in order to promote your work and grow the community.

The link to our proposal: https://1hive.org/#/proposal/99

Thanks!

[boring877]

hi @tze_42,

Just wondering where the funds going to. I mean who is responsible of holding the funds and distribution of it.

60 hny worth today $ 19,800. is the funding based on USD or hny ?

Can we also get an excel sheet later on showing how the funds been distributed ? ^^&

is the 60 hny going to be the only fund that going to be asked, or there is plan to ask more later on

thanks, best of luck ( ´ ω ` )

[tze_42]

Hi, thanks for the questions.

The lab10 collective will hold it and distribute it to the contributing team members (has to be payed mostly in Euro). Yes, there will a weekly contribution report in the form of an excel sheet.

It is based on Euro - max. 3000€/week and recalculated in HNY once per week in order to factor in price changes. If the pool immediately provides 60HNY and the weekly calculated HNY would be valued higher, we return any difference to the pool. If it can be released on a weekly basis, we won’t have that problem anyway.

Regarding - being the only funding round: We don’t plan to have another round and we intend to support also a transition to another network in case 1Hive decides to do that.

I hope that answers it.

[boring877]

thanks. love it (⌒▽⌒)☆

[solarmkd]

@tze_42

As discussed in the chat, the support for this proposal will be sustained even if you decide to move to a L2 network like Arbitrum. The integration is basically an update of one configuration file and users will be assisted inside the Minerva wallet to migrate in an easy way.

Even if not mentioned in the proposal, but definitely planned, is that our marketing efforts will highlight the 1Hive / Honeyswap community, in order to promote your work and grow the community.

I like this , however I do have some thoughts amd questions regarding Minerva wallet

1. What is the plan for auditing Minerva wallet
2. What are the key features Minerva wallet will offer that Alpha Wallet or Burner Wallet doesn’t right now ?

• one of those should be adding honeyswap support and bridge support, but i would like to learn more thoughts from you …

3. Are you planning to partner with 1hive and if so are you planning to give airdrops in future to our members ?

Overall i love the idea to have dedicated decentralized wallet and your team as support. I just need to understand what 1hive will get from this as opposed to Alpha Wallet and Burner wallet… Thanks

[tze_42]

Good morning!
Thank you for your questions.
ad 1) We plan to crowdsource that task and incentivise it with coins. Audits are sometimes ridiculously overpriced for the work which is done and even if you spend the money they are hard to get. Therefore we expect better quality from people which really care about Minerva and want to use it themselfs.

ad 2) We love both projects and have a close working relationship with them. Especially with AlphaWallet we have close ties and we help each other - e.g. currently with the WalletConnect support for xDai Chain.

Some key differences: Burner Wallet or our clone Minerva.cash (for ARTIS) are browser wallets and while convenient, also unsecure, because your private key is in the browser storage. Therefore the comparison between Minerva Wallet and AlphaWallet is more suitable. I will provide a more elaborate list of features on our Minerva docs page, but to make it brief regarding key features distinctive to the Minerva wallet - here a list from the top of my head:

• OmniBridge and Tokenbridge support
• xDai, ETH, USDT, USDC, DAI purchase with Fiat
• One wallet (seed phrase) with many accounts and their own (exportable) private key in one UI
• Clear separation of testnets from mainnets using different accounts
• Faucet integration to use for newbee trainings in a testnet environment
• Easy onboarding in a few minutes - download till first transaction
• Multi-Session WalletConnect integration allow interaction with many DApps simultaneously
• W3C standardized Decentralized Identity (DID) and Verifiable Credential (VC) support for authentication, authorization, tickets, memberships, etc.
• Honeyswap integration is done via WalletConnect - on mobile only via deep links and in a mixed setting via QR code.

ad 3) Yes, partnering with 1Hive could make a lot of sense for us. Not just with Minerva, but especially with ARTIS where we plan to open a liquidity pool on Honeyswap. If you provide the option of liquidity mining incentivised with other tokens than HNY, this could be very interesting for many other projects as well. Once we get closer to that option we could talk about a token swap as well. Airdrops (=giving out for free) are not planned, but incentivised community support is a valid option for us.

I hope the reply wasn’t too long

[solarmkd]

Thank you for the explanation , it sounds good to me.

[tze_42]

@solarmkd we have prepared a more in depth comparison of the Minerva Wallet with the AlphaWallet at: https://docs.minerva.digital/comparisons/alphawallet

[tze_42]

@boring877 @solarmkd @metaverde @willjgriff @crisog @luigy @Stonky @PeterTheOne @seliqui … and everyone else not mentioned her.
Thank you and all others for the support of this proposal.
It just went through and as soon as we have finished the current tasks, we will dive into the tasks described above. This will likely start next week on Monday, Jan. 25, 2021.
Talk to you in Discord, Thomas