Reddit /r/ethtrader support for bringing DONUTs to xDAI

Eth_Man · April 17, 2021, 7:26pm

Support for Reddit /r/ethtrader for bringing DONUT infrastructure to xDAI

Proposal Information

Proposal description:
This proposal would provide 20HNY to the /r/ethtrader gnosis multisig 0x682b5664C2b9a6a93749f2159F95c23fEd654F0A to be used at the group discretion by /r/ethtrader to compensate individuals responsible for bringing Reddit /r/ethtrader DONUT infrastructure to xDAI as well as potential small welcome airdrop to members of xDAI, HNY, AGVE.

Proposal Rationale
Reddit is a key social communication platform particularly with respect to crypto users. /r/ethtrader having surpassed 1M subscribed users, and with 1000 registered users represents a large and growing community of people both being introduced to ETH and DeFI and to DAO type organizations via DONUTs. Many of the people in this ecosystem either, already have discovered side chains, or are discovering them now. Once the reddit scaling concest conclusion failed to materialize a result I decide myself in November last year to attempt bring this community over to the xDAI so they could enjoy lower fees, potentially become new DAO participants and Honeyswap Liquidity Providers.

The DONUT infrastructure provides 1.15M DONUTs/week in rewards to the community:

150K to moderators
850K based on reddit post content
100K to LP for the Uniswap DONUT-ETH pair staking contract on mainnet
recently 50K Honeyswap LP for DONUT-xDAI (we still have to put up infrastructure for this but it has passed).
About 1/2 of this (currently valued at 40KUSD/week or 2MUSD/yr is currently distributed on xDAI.

Our Intention is to bring over the entire DONUT governance infrastructure. To use on-chain tipping to create a new /r/ethtrader reward metric. The tipping bot simply needs a UI interface change to allow for tipping in any xDAI currency (xDAI, DONUTs, MOONs, BRICKs, HNY, AGVE, whatever). In principle it also could be used across multiple sub-reddits as well.

Hours reported so far
/u/carlslarson 108 - main contract changes, distribution handling, gnosis multisig, etc. (ongoing)
/u/Eth_Man ~100-120 (still totaling up to get accurate number, ongoing)
/u/dont_forget_canada - tipping UI 30-40 (ongoing)
/u/Infernal_Toast ~40 - meta/lavawallet work
others 20 - testing, feed back, etc.
Total: 298-338 @ 50/hr 14.9-16.9 (1/2 of this 7.5-8.5k or about 10-12HNY at current price 700)

Expected duration or delivery date (if applicable):
The primary work is already complete. Longer term plans 3-6 months out.

Team Information (For Funding Proposals)

r/ethtrader Gnosis 5-8 multisignatories

/u/aminok - mod
/u/dont_forget_canada - mod - UI developer
/u/nootropicat - mod - smart contract developer
/u/Basoosh - mod
/u/rustedpopcorn - mod
/u/MemeyCurmudgeon - mod
/u/carlslarson - lead dev and lead mod of r/ethtrader
/u/Eth_Man - multi-year crypto enthusiast, trader, analyst, etc. Active with Maker, r/ethtrader, 1Hive, AGAVE, etc. communities.

/u/Infernal_Toast - key developer for 0xbtc, lava-wallet GitHub - lavawallet/lavawallet-web

Skills and previous experience in related or similar work:
See above.

Funding Information (For Funding Proposals)

20HNY

0x682b5664C2b9a6a93749f2159F95c23fEd654F0A

More detailed description of how funds will be handled and used:
Funds will be sent directly to the /r/ethtrader gnosis multisig address on xDAI where the /r/ethtrader gnosis team will distribute according to the above guidelines. 1/2 (10HNY for work already done and hours reported), 1/2 allocated at their discretion for xDAI, HNY, AGVE airdrop to those in /r/ethtrader opting in to xDAI distributions. (we will use a prior snapshot for any airdrop), or for compensation for future work. There is a possibility we use some HNY to partially fund the HNY-DONUT LP reward on Honeyswap. etc. The remaining 10 up to community to decide with above ideas as options.

D0SH · April 18, 2021, 9:45pm

I like the idea of initiating a new partnership/collaboration with a different set of people in terms of marketing and Reddit does seem to be the the place were alot of crypto enthusiast spend their time

I do have a few questions with r/ethtrader that i would like abit more insights on. The 1k registered users I’m assuming are the active contributors within the community right now that partake in posting vs the subscribed users? Also i have noticed that the r/ethtrader community tends to be more interested in memes vs actual defi/dao discussions as i currently browse through the front page all the top rated posts are of that nature. To your best knowledge how effective in terms of audience capture do you think it will be to have this partnership in what we are building here at 1Hive?

Furthermore i would like to know if we could explore some added iniatives within this proposal for some higher exposure links/content within the r/ethtrader page.Some examples include having links to 1Hive related links under the resources/featured column.

Eth_Man · April 19, 2021, 1:08pm

People that cared enough to connect their reddit accounts to wallets to be eligible for DONUT rewards (most people don’t care).

/r/ethtrader more interested in:

I have been saying this for a long time. r/ethtrader used to be the go-to place for eth trading talk. That is no longer true imo. it is closer to how BTC was as it was clipping off 1-2-3-5-10K price handles. There is a strong perception we basically are funding a lot of these memes with rewards as well.

Right now we have made a first step moving finance here (DONUTs) the next step is governance CONTRIB, vote… As to audience capture via memes, completely unclear mostly because we don’t have access to the underlying reddit logs. All we get is the computed ‘contribution’ scores for the month based on what reddit thinks were big scores. This was one reason we wanted to get back to a cheap on-chain recording system. ------- I think most of us are on board with making adjustments that bring back more engaging and informative posts.

As to higher exposure for 1Hive/xDAI assets. I am sure the group would be open to discussions on that. On occasion the banner expires and we could use some of the above funds to buy the banner and put up a 1Hive banner ad (1Hive would have to make the banner ad graphics) with reasonably cheap Harberger.

Remember we have already passed a 50K/week Honeyswap LP incentive so in the loosest sense the community is already committed to supporting DONUT-xDAI liquidity/trading on Honeyswap to the tune of $1k/week LP incentives. I can not speak for the entire community in terms of commitments but if we could get some farming support on this proposal as a match for work (realized I am only asking for 1/2 compensation for work done) and/or additional matches on 1Hive PR projects I am sure the community would be receptive to discuss further initiatives.

Something to discuss probably. But if it has to be agreed to - to be part of this deal I don’t think I can speak for the group on that in any significant way. I personally don’t see why additional initiatives can’t be explored from within this proposal. As above If BUZZ wants to heap on to this budget with some matching PR funds/deals we’d be happy to explore any number of proposals.

The goal here was mostly to create some positive PR around the communities supporting each other. /r/ethtrader has done a fair amount of work to move to xDAI. We are bringing $1k/week Honeyswap DONUT-xDAI LP support and a large fraction of the 1M/week ($20k/week) economy and people. Based on xMOON LP returns based on trading (a comparable community) I calculate a conservative ROI on the above amount from Honeyswap to 1Hive via fees is easily 50%(2yr return on capital) and quite possibly more like 200%(6month return on capital).

cslarson · April 19, 2021, 2:35pm

(Thanks @Eth_Man for writing up this proposal and thanks to the 1hive community for it’s consideration)

$donuts, the r/ethtrader dao built on Aragon (ethtraderdao.eth), and the sub more generally should be viewed, imo, as an onboarding tool for people new to the space to learn about tokens, defi, dao governance, etc. We can always do a better job communicating about it to our own community but we have also been hampered over the past year due to high gas prices. Transitioning functionality to xdai means we are able to start expanding usage and features again.

Tricky. I don’t want to defend the current balance which I personally think is off. It’s also up to dao governance make any necessary changes (including removing me as lead mod). I’m not in favor of a heavily mod-curated subreddit (other spaces fill that need anyway). I would like to see decentralised tools play a greater role in moderating content and xdai is helping in that regard - we are trialing an experiment with xdai tip-based curation of comedy posts (though it needs some fixes before going live again).

Memes also seem to greatly expand the reach of the sub and the visibility available to partners. They have always been an important part of sub culture, so it is a delicate balance to find, but one I do think we need to work harder on.

As @Eth_Man mentioned, the banner on the sub (Reddit redesign only) is ownable via a harberger scheme. We could explore a HNY<->DONUT swap to allow it’s purchase and support an educational drive with a pinned thread or AMA.

D0SH · April 19, 2021, 10:39pm

It would be great if you could arrange a community call within 1hive and have a few mods join to explore these possibilities. Also im sure lots of people within 1hive would be interested to know how the r/ethtrader DAO operates

I can’t speak for everyone within the BuzzDAO but i think if this initial proposal goes well it would be a great avenue to explore with some marketing.

Thank you @Eth_Man for the replies!

D0SH · April 19, 2021, 10:53pm

Thanks for reaching out Carl! Eth_man always mentions you and how much you do/have done for r/ethtrader.

How does the voting work withing the sub forum? Is it on-chain using aragon and every donut holder has the ability to vote? if so what is the threshold for a vote to pass? Or is it more like a thread style vote and you use aragon to make it abit more trustless(when it works )

Thanks for the reply @cslarson

cslarson · April 20, 2021, 2:37pm

Reddit built a voting module for us - we were the first to use their new polling feature. When creating a new poll there is an option to have it be a “Governance” poll. This kicks in something they call decision threshold which is a sort of dynamic quorum based on recent levels of participation. Vote weight is determined by min($contrib, $donut). $contrib is a non-transferable tally of your original earned donuts. We also have an on-chain voting module with our Aragon dao - a customized version of the main voting module that supports the min($contrib, $donut) weighting, but we don’t use this and just rely on the off-chain Reddit polling. More recently we started using a 5 of 8 gnosis multisig so using this in conjunction with snapshot style voting maybe something we move to.

Monstrosity · April 23, 2021, 7:58pm

Thanks for the proposal, I am in favor of bringing donuts and growing the partnership between 1hive and ethtrader I just want to be clear on how that partnership can look. I don’t know that bringing liquidity to xdai is sufficient for a ‘partnership’ that is more of just a donation. I am wondering how much of that is organic growth as honeyswaps liquidity 2x’d from last october wherease moons dropped in half. All that said I would like to see 1hive be able to use banner ads or something in exchange for the 20HNY besides just getting the ‘growth’.

I say this because there are a handfull of people who put in a tremendous amount of work building and marketing projects like connext bridge. We saw a step change up to $4M in weekly volume that’s about 11x donut volume. should we pay out 20 x 11 = 220 HNY, should write up that proposal today?

fluff · April 25, 2021, 9:30am

I’d say more like 2k active users at any given time and 3k at peak times.

And there’s been an influx of new users after the recent dogecoin pump since people tend to reach r/ethtrader and r/cryptocurrency through their research. In fact there’s been a big influx of new users from r/cryptocurrency as more people learn about moons, and therefore donuts. Ngl, the concept of a decentralized internet government where you get a little reward for participating is very new and it needs more exposure and awareness. Donuts are 2 years old. Moons are 1. I’ve been in crypto for 3 months now and I’ve just understood DAO a few days ago. No ones advertising moons or donuts as DAO, even when it is its very little, but it’s a good start. Can’t deny reddit is playing a huge part is spreading that concept. Any support that goes to the audience at reddit and the mods/these folks here benefits this ecosystem as a whole. Community points system on reddit started with r/ethtrader with donuts and r/cryptocurrency moons will probably follow suit on xdai as they come on the mainnet.

Bruh I major in health sciences and with people around me asking to buy BTC ‘internet coin’ or ‘dodge’ coin, let alone knowing ETH or xDAI or DAO. Reddit made DAO fun and easy where people from all walks of life, anywhere can learn.

Welcome to my ted talk.

D0SH · April 25, 2021, 9:30pm

We had a call with Carl and other mods and members of r/ethtrader and we may be pursuing this new user trend abit further with some initiatives between donuts and 1hive community. Hopefully this way “the people around you” can be pointed in the right direction and start learning all about DAOs and DeFi

willjgriff · April 26, 2021, 3:26pm

Did the call result in any explicit incentives for 1Hive to fund this development?

So far I see “potential small welcome airdrop to members of xDAI, HNY, AGVE” and “There is a possibility we use some HNY to partially fund the HNY-DONUT LP reward on Honeyswap” which are pretty vague and not enough incentive for me to vote in favour of this.

Besides this I can see it would be good for the xDai ecosystem as a whole. However, due to the future use of xDai within the 1Hive ecosystem being uncertain and considering 1Hive’s infancy, I would be weary of supporting proposals for which this is the only incentive.

Kaselol · April 26, 2021, 7:04pm

Donut is a bomb ready to explode

cslarson · April 26, 2021, 7:32pm

I shared a follow-up to our cafe discussion here. I outline a few of what I gathered were our respective goals in this context, and then what I drew as some of the key actionable ideas that could form a roadmap for collaboration.

Agreed, I think it would cool to see a bit of a token exchange, so we would gift some $donut to 1hive, that could be used to purchase the banner. There is an aragon based interface to the banner which is better to use for purchasing and adjusting price. For instance, you can see there a timer for how long the current owners credit will last. If the timer runs out (owner doesn’t add credit and the banner is not bought from them) then the price actually reverts to 0.

Sina · April 27, 2021, 10:41am

Thanks to @Eth_Man to provide this proposal, I think the collaboration of the Community Eth Trader with the 1Hive community can be effective for the growth of 1Hive community, and, given the lowness of Fi on the XDAI network, this capital transfer for members of the Community Eth Trader is an annual payment point for payment Fi gets less network, it seems interesting.

Jsh976 · April 27, 2021, 10:52am

does it already started ??? i don’t see much of difference in Donut liquidity in recent…

850K for 1000user is impressing

cslarson · April 27, 2021, 12:53pm

No, the incentive was authorized but the setup has not been completed yet.

Eth_Man · April 27, 2021, 6:40pm

Discussed was more collaboration using NFTs, Quests that involve basic stuff like learning how to use Honeyswap to trade DONUT for xDAI or vice versa (or any other tokens for that matter). Adding to DONUT-xDAI LP and depositing into a LP farming contract to earn part of the 50K/week Honeyswap DONUT-xDAI LP incentives already approved but not implemented. If Agave adds DONUT to a depositable also using Agave to borrow xDAI etc. Quests for participating with votes in either 1Hive or Agave DAO. (which is why we considered a small airdrop). We have already privately agreed to put up some DONUTs as rewards on these and quests in general.

There is interest in when 1Hive comes up with a DAO infrastructure set for us to investigate using that for our governance. We want the VOTE=min(DONUT,CONTRIB) to still apply. I think using this for conviction voting would be interesting.

Carl has put together a document with a kind of road-map of ideas EthTrader and 1Hive discussion follow-up. Some easy, some longer term.

We have already talked about floating some DONUTs back to 1Hive to buy the banner. Someone in buzz should be thinking to get a banner graphic made that fits the requirements.

Eth_Man · April 27, 2021, 6:44pm

Passed but not implemented yet. It is on the task list once we get development funds rolling and merge various website UI front ends (in process). There was some hope that 1Hive would have a general farming contract available that used any tokens for farming but so far I have not heard anything in that regard so unless that changes we will have to roll our own Honeyswap DONUT-xDAI LP Staking contract on xDAI.

willjgriff · April 28, 2021, 7:53am

Again I don’t see any concrete incentives for Honey holders here. These are all vague suggestions of ways we might collaborate in the future. There’s nothing explicit.

To me this proposal seems like 1Hive is paying the ethtrader community to use our infrastructure, specifically Honeyswap and Quests (once it’s available, which btw is at least a 4-6 weeks away from being ready, likely more) and for some unknown potential future return for Honey holders.

Whether this is something 1Hive is interested in supporting is up to them but I think this should be made clear at this stage.

Kaselol · April 28, 2021, 8:10am

I remember months ago a Donut Airdrop was done on reddit and I was not eligible. They had a great project and team behind them.